Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Russia 'mocking' WWII ceremonies
BBC ^ | 6 May, 2005

Posted on 05/06/2005 5:14:29 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

Russian plans to mark 60 years since the end of World War II will make a mockery of the occasion, world leaders have been warned.

A group of politicians, academics and human rights campaigners have signed an open letter attacking Russia's record on democracy and political freedom.

They say official ceremonies to be held in Moscow undermine the memory of those who fought and died in the war.

Signatories include ex-Czech President Vaclav Havel and former US ambassadors.

Moscow has also upset neighbours Georgia, Estonia and Lithuania, who all plan to boycott Monday's ceremonies.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili is staying away because Russia and Georgia have failed to agree on a timetable for closing Soviet-era bases in his country.

In a separate row, Estonia and Lithuania are boycotting the ceremonies because they say their liberation from the Nazis marked the start of Soviet occupation.

Latvia will send dignitaries - but along with Estonia and Lithuania it wants Russia to apologise for the Baltic states' annexation by the Soviet Union in 1940.

'Mockery'

Russian President Vladimir Putin said recently that the three Baltic states had been "treated as pawns in world politics" but said Moscow had already apologised and would not do so again.

"Must we do this every day, every year? That is downright senseless," he told German television.

Pro-democracy campaigners in Europe and the US have expressed growing concerns about modern Russia.

In the letter, to be published in full in the UK's Financial Times newspaper to coincide with the 9 May ceremonies, signatories accuse Russia of betraying the principles behind victory in 1945.

They write: "[We] believe the venue and hosting of this event are altogether unsuited to the fundamental principles for which that historic victory... was achieved."

Russia in 2005 lacks strong democratic institutions, while political freedoms, civil liberties and the rule of law are weak, the signatories allege.

"It seems to us a mockery of the occasion to gather there in honour of the 20th century's climactic sacrifice for Europe's freedom."

As well as Mr Havel, the letter's 75 signatories include former prime ministers of Estonia and Bulgaria and academics and democracy activists from eastern and western Europe and the US.

Several current and former members of the European parliament, US congress and UK parliament also signed the letter.

Richard Allen, former national security adviser to former US President Ronald Reagan, has signed, alongside several former ambassadors.

Russia has been accused of concentrating too much power in the hands of the Kremlin, and US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently criticised levels of media freedom.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: veday; wwii
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-49 next last
To: GSlob
BTW, Kyiv will probably have a truncated Victory Day this year:
...v ehtom godu reshili ne delat' voenniy parad na Kreshchatike, t.k. veteranov ostalos' malo i ikh sam Yushchenko sprashival: 'nuzhen li vam parad?' Oni otvetili, chto im ne pod silam idti po Kreshchatiku, utomitel'no. Reshili nakryvat' stoly, kotorye postavyat na Kreshchatike i ugoshchat' vsekh veteranov. A kak budet na samom dele, ehshche ne znayu. Obsuzhdalas' dolgo ehta tema, chto reshili ya ne znayu. No kontsert na Maydane obyazatel'no budet, feerverki, massovye gulyan'ya.

"This year they decided not to have a military parade on the Kreshchatik (Kyiv's downtown), since there aren't a lot of veterans and Yushchenko asked them himself, 'Do you need a parade?' They answered that they didn't have the strength to go along the Kreshchatik. They decided to set out tables of food and treat all the veterans. How it will be in reality, I don't know. But there'll be a concert on the Independence Square, fireworks, lots of strolling around."

She writes in Russian because my Ukrainian is pretty bad. Another interesting letter:
V voskresen'e Den' Pobedy. A u nas eshche est' veterany povstancheskoy armii, kotorye vo vremya voyny voevali i protiv sovetskoy armii, i protiv Gitlera. Tak mezhdu nimi takaya 'voyna' razrazilas', uzhas. Povstantsy pretenduyut na vosstanovlenii spravedlivosti i priznat' ikh zashchitnikami i veteranami voyny za samostiynu Ukrainu, a te krichat, chto oni zashchitniki. Yushchenko pytalsya ikh pomerit', no, uvy. A vchera po teleku pokazyvali Sloveniyu, tak tam tozhe est' takie, kotorye shli za kommunistami, a drugie za monarkhiyu. I tozhe sporyat za vosstanovlenie zvanie veteranov. Ya posmotrela na ehtikh bozhikh oduvanchikov i dumayu, zahem im vse ehto? Ostalos' zhit'-to maksimum dva dnya, a oni eshche voyut za kakuyu-to svoyu pravdu. A mozhet ehto ikh i derzhit?

"Sunday is Victory Day. We still have veterans of the insurgent army, which during the war warred both against the Soviet Army and against Hitler. Between them a "war" has broken out, it's terrible. The rebels demand restoration of justice and to be recognized as defenders of the Ukraine and veterans of the war, while the others shout that they are the defenders. Yushchenko tried to calm them down, but in vain. Yesterday on TV they showed Slovenia, there were also those who followed the Communists and those for the monarchy. And they also argue for the restoration of the title of veteran. I watched on these devine dandelions and I thought, why do they need all this? They've got a maximum of two days left to live, but still they fight for some kind of truth. Perhaps that's all that keeps them going?"


21 posted on 05/06/2005 7:26:39 PM PDT by struwwelpeter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe
It is you hero. The fighter for western democracy. If it was your chose you would ally with him?
22 posted on 05/07/2005 5:45:17 AM PDT by RusIvan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RusIvan

When the Kremlin is accused of the Genocide of 1932 of 10 million, they opine "Blame the Georgians! Stalin was Georgian!"

When the Kremlin wants to garnish credit for defeating their ex- ally Hitler, they conveniently credit the entire losses of the USSR to their column.

Here are the facts: Not only were actual Russian losses less than Ukraine, as a percentage they pale to the losses suffered by MOST other countries.

The Nazis did not travel through Moscow to reach Stalin's industrial heartland - the massive losses on the Eastern Front actually occurred in countries that were already bled dry by two decades of Communist Genocide.


http://www.infoukes.com/history/ww2/page-29.html

World War II in Ukraine:


Population Losses in World War II by Country


by
Andrew Gregorovich





Population Losses in World War II by Country

Total Losses in Thousands
Militry Civlian Total %population
Ukraine 2,500 5,500 8,000 19.1
Germany 4,500 2,000 6,500 9.1
Russi * 1,781 4,000 5,781 (?) 2.9
Poland 123 4,877 5,000 19.6
Japan 2,000 350 2,350 3.4
Yugo 300 1,400 1,700 10.6
France 250 350 600 1.5
Italy 400 100 500 1.1
Romania 300 200 500 3.7
Greece 100 350 450 6.2
Hungary 136 294 430 4.6
Grt Brit. 290 60 350 0.7
Czechosl 46 294 340 3.0
Austria 270 104 374 5.6
USA 0 300 - 300 0.2
Holland 12 198 210 2.4
Finland 84 16 100 2.7
Belgium 13 75 88 1.1
Canada 0 42 - 42 0.4


* This estimate of Russian losses does not include citizens of ByeloRussia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan,

Source: Ukraine During World War II 1938-1945, by V. Kusyk, Kyiv-Paris-New York-Toronto, 1992, p. 702. B. Urlanis Guerres et populations, Moscou 1975, p. 319-323; Das Dritte Reich (Muenchen 1985) Band 2. S. 404.





The total USSR military loss in World War II was 8,668,400 including Ukraine, Byelorussia, Russia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Armenia, Georgia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tadjikistan, etc. according to General M. Moiseyev, Chief of General Staff, USSR Armed forces (Voennoistoricheskiy zhurnal no. 3, March 1990; quoted by Peter G. Tsouras in The Great Patriotic War, p. 240.



23 posted on 05/07/2005 8:00:06 AM PDT by spanalot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: spanalot

I agree with your numbers. I know that real russian losses during WW2 lesser then ukranian. No wonder all the war mostely went through thier regions.
BUT anyway Hitler came for Ukraine. SO war went there.


24 posted on 05/07/2005 8:17:13 AM PDT by RusIvan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: spanalot
You have conveniently forgotten Belarus where the losses were almost 50%. However, your point is valid. The role of Ukraine and other peoples of the former USSR in the defeat of Hitler is so great it cannot be overestimated. There is some little "but" though. How about the role of Ukraine (along with Georgia as the birthplace of Stalin and Beria) in "occupation" of the Baltic states now everybody wants Russia and only Russia to apologize for? Were there not ethnic Ukrainians and other peoples in the Soviet troops which entered the Baltic republics in 1945? I hope you will not claim there were only native Russians? By the way, in 1990 there were over 3 million members of the communist party of Ukraine, among 18 millions of party members in the whole USSR. How about their responsibility for Stalin's and USSR's crimes?

My point is that either Russia or Ukraine or Baltic states or Georgia cannot have all of it. All these peoples lived in the same state called Russian empire for centuries and all those people played their role in Bolshevik's coming to power and in the crimes committed by Communists and should share the responsibility. And yes, millions of people of all nationalities of the USSR were victims of the WWII and the ultimate victors. I find it outrageous that celebrations of this great day have turned out ugly but again it is not Russia or at least not only Russia who should be blamed here. And as far as the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is concerned, it was condemned by the Parliament of the country that signed it: the USSR. If we want to start condemning it again it should be condemned by all ex-members of the USSR, Ukraine included, and not by Russia alone.
25 posted on 05/07/2005 10:53:02 AM PDT by RussianBoor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: RusIvan
Your hero:

26 posted on 05/07/2005 7:56:00 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe ("Man will be governed by God, or by God he'll be governed")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: RussianBoor

"And as far as the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is concerned, it was condemned by the Parliament of the country that signed it: the USSR. If we want to start condemning it again it should be condemned by all ex-members of the USSR, Ukraine included, and not by Russia alone."

Just when you thought you have heard every conceivable spin to make the Kremlin warm and fuzzy, along comes a new one.

Russianboorman, you are a true craftsman at your art.


27 posted on 05/07/2005 8:16:35 PM PDT by spanalot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: spanalot

28 posted on 05/08/2005 3:55:53 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: struwwelpeter; GSlob

Russian President Vladimir Putin (C), Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov (L)
and Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov walk in front of a new World War II
memorial in Moscow, May 7, 2005. Putin claimed the Soviet Union
made the decisive contribution to the victory over Nazism.
REUTERS/ITAR-TASS/KREMLIN PRESS SERVICE

29 posted on 05/08/2005 3:59:56 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: GOP_1900AD

Russian soldiers march during a rehearsal for a military parade in central St.Petersburg, May 4, 2005.

30 posted on 05/08/2005 4:05:40 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

31 posted on 05/08/2005 4:06:43 AM PDT by struwwelpeter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: lizol; Grzegorz 246; Lukasz

Young members of a military history club, dressed in Soviet war time uniform, wait for their
turn to perform in a concert for the World War II veterans during celebrations of the 60th anniversary of the victory over Nazi Germany in downtown Moscow, Sunday, May 8, 2005.

32 posted on 05/08/2005 4:29:03 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

Interesting.


33 posted on 05/08/2005 6:10:01 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe; Grzegorz 246
More photos from Moscow's preparations, red color is dominant :)
34 posted on 05/08/2005 6:51:22 AM PDT by Lukasz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: BurbankKarl
Lithuania thinks the EU is just like Communism

What?

35 posted on 05/08/2005 6:53:38 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe
Russia in 2005 lacks strong democratic institutions, while political freedoms, civil liberties and the rule of law are weak, the signatories allege.

Evidence to contradict this will arise when they form their own institutions of freedom such as a cyrillic version of 'FreeRepublic'.

36 posted on 05/08/2005 7:00:28 AM PDT by Cvengr (<;^))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

I am glad to see Bush bashing FDR over Yalta - that was a long time coming.


37 posted on 05/08/2005 7:01:27 AM PDT by spanalot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Cvengr
And why do you think such versions do not exist? I know several, although they are not as big as the free republic and not as strictly partisan. Although...such site as germany.ru (a web portal for Russian speakers in Germany which attracts users from all Europe as well as the former Soviet Union and some even from North America) exists since 1998 and currently has 267,000 registered users. Free republic says it has "over 200,000".
38 posted on 05/08/2005 9:41:05 PM PDT by RussianBoor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: spanalot
And what would you think? You and other former people of the USSR were active participants of all communist atrocities and now all of you are shining and innocent new democracies and Russians are the only villains who should apologize for everything since Kievan Rus? No such luck, sorry.
39 posted on 05/08/2005 9:46:35 PM PDT by RussianBoor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

Many hammers and sickles in all the celebrations the past few days. The hammer and sickle has only one, unmistakeable meaning. There is nothing "nationalist" about it. Apologists cannot tap dance around all those hammers and sickles.


40 posted on 05/09/2005 11:10:52 AM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-49 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson