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To: RusIvan

When the Kremlin is accused of the Genocide of 1932 of 10 million, they opine "Blame the Georgians! Stalin was Georgian!"

When the Kremlin wants to garnish credit for defeating their ex- ally Hitler, they conveniently credit the entire losses of the USSR to their column.

Here are the facts: Not only were actual Russian losses less than Ukraine, as a percentage they pale to the losses suffered by MOST other countries.

The Nazis did not travel through Moscow to reach Stalin's industrial heartland - the massive losses on the Eastern Front actually occurred in countries that were already bled dry by two decades of Communist Genocide.


http://www.infoukes.com/history/ww2/page-29.html

World War II in Ukraine:


Population Losses in World War II by Country


by
Andrew Gregorovich





Population Losses in World War II by Country

Total Losses in Thousands
Militry Civlian Total %population
Ukraine 2,500 5,500 8,000 19.1
Germany 4,500 2,000 6,500 9.1
Russi * 1,781 4,000 5,781 (?) 2.9
Poland 123 4,877 5,000 19.6
Japan 2,000 350 2,350 3.4
Yugo 300 1,400 1,700 10.6
France 250 350 600 1.5
Italy 400 100 500 1.1
Romania 300 200 500 3.7
Greece 100 350 450 6.2
Hungary 136 294 430 4.6
Grt Brit. 290 60 350 0.7
Czechosl 46 294 340 3.0
Austria 270 104 374 5.6
USA 0 300 - 300 0.2
Holland 12 198 210 2.4
Finland 84 16 100 2.7
Belgium 13 75 88 1.1
Canada 0 42 - 42 0.4


* This estimate of Russian losses does not include citizens of ByeloRussia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan,

Source: Ukraine During World War II 1938-1945, by V. Kusyk, Kyiv-Paris-New York-Toronto, 1992, p. 702. B. Urlanis Guerres et populations, Moscou 1975, p. 319-323; Das Dritte Reich (Muenchen 1985) Band 2. S. 404.





The total USSR military loss in World War II was 8,668,400 including Ukraine, Byelorussia, Russia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Armenia, Georgia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tadjikistan, etc. according to General M. Moiseyev, Chief of General Staff, USSR Armed forces (Voennoistoricheskiy zhurnal no. 3, March 1990; quoted by Peter G. Tsouras in The Great Patriotic War, p. 240.



23 posted on 05/07/2005 8:00:06 AM PDT by spanalot
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To: spanalot

I agree with your numbers. I know that real russian losses during WW2 lesser then ukranian. No wonder all the war mostely went through thier regions.
BUT anyway Hitler came for Ukraine. SO war went there.


24 posted on 05/07/2005 8:17:13 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: spanalot
You have conveniently forgotten Belarus where the losses were almost 50%. However, your point is valid. The role of Ukraine and other peoples of the former USSR in the defeat of Hitler is so great it cannot be overestimated. There is some little "but" though. How about the role of Ukraine (along with Georgia as the birthplace of Stalin and Beria) in "occupation" of the Baltic states now everybody wants Russia and only Russia to apologize for? Were there not ethnic Ukrainians and other peoples in the Soviet troops which entered the Baltic republics in 1945? I hope you will not claim there were only native Russians? By the way, in 1990 there were over 3 million members of the communist party of Ukraine, among 18 millions of party members in the whole USSR. How about their responsibility for Stalin's and USSR's crimes?

My point is that either Russia or Ukraine or Baltic states or Georgia cannot have all of it. All these peoples lived in the same state called Russian empire for centuries and all those people played their role in Bolshevik's coming to power and in the crimes committed by Communists and should share the responsibility. And yes, millions of people of all nationalities of the USSR were victims of the WWII and the ultimate victors. I find it outrageous that celebrations of this great day have turned out ugly but again it is not Russia or at least not only Russia who should be blamed here. And as far as the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is concerned, it was condemned by the Parliament of the country that signed it: the USSR. If we want to start condemning it again it should be condemned by all ex-members of the USSR, Ukraine included, and not by Russia alone.
25 posted on 05/07/2005 10:53:02 AM PDT by RussianBoor
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