Posted on 05/04/2005 3:40:19 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov has suggested the defeat of Hitler far outweighed the USSR's long occupation of eastern Europe after World War II. "When they discuss if we occupied this country or that, it makes you wonder what would have happened to them had we not broken fascism's back?" he said.
Heads of two of the three Baltic states, Estonia and Lithuania, are boycotting VE Day events in Moscow.
Latvia has justified its own decision to attend the 60th anniversary events.
President Vaira Vike-Freiberga told the BBC her people appreciated that she was attending as the leader of a free country, which would act as a reminder that the Soviet occupation had failed.
The Moscow ceremonies next Monday will be attended by world leaders including US President George W Bush who will first visit the Baltic states in what analysts say is his recognition that Victory in Europe Day was not a day of freedom for them.
Problems over citizenship and language rights for the Baltic states' post-Soviet ethnic Russian communities continue to strain their governments' relations with Moscow.
Suffering on both sides
Ms Vike-Freiberga said she did not expect Russian President Vladimir Putin to apologise for his country's annexation of the Baltic states.
Interviewed by Moscow newspaper Rossiskaya Gazeta, Mr Ivanov said the world had never known a war like that against the Nazis.
"They can say what they want, but there had never been such a war in history," he said. "That war was won, of course, at the price of uncountable numbers of victims."
Estonian President Arnold Ruutel has told the BBC his decision to stay away from Moscow does not mean Estonia did not welcome Hitler's defeat.
"The Soviet Army had great merits but nor can we forget the suffering and losses of the Estonian people," he told BBC World Service.
Should we be grateful to them that they didn't want to kill us off with cyclon B, but only to turn us into slave labourers?===
Slaves are those who work on cotton fields and doesn't receive payment but just food and shelter. Slave women comfort master men.
Are those happened especcially second thing? OR maybe you little exaggarated "slave" thing?
You're damn right. The biggest mistake of Truman administration was that they didn't nuke Russia soon enough - i.e. before the Russians could counterattack. This is not a joke - I'm dead serious.===
Truman was wise man. Why to make mortal enemy from nation which never did nothing wrong to America.
I'm interested does your logic work in opposite direction?
Thanks for your input comrade Ivan :)
What do you think about this one article Gary ?
Thanks for your input comrade Ivan :)==
Greg if some people here tell stupid thing out of maybe patetism or something like this why not to laugh about it?:))
If someone tell serious that poles was "slaves" of russian masters. Then I conclude there are many poles of russian decent in Poland today. Am I right?
They say there are lot of germans of russian decent in Germany after so many years of occupation.
We had the perfect instrument in the perfect place to have imposed Pax Americana over the whole world. He wavered. ==
He was moral man. And wise at same time. The so-called dirty-radioactive bomb was already known at those time. Soviet Union has nuclier reactor worked in 1943.
But any way I have question for you. Can you explain one very controvertual fact.
WHY academician Andrei Sakharov who was dissident against soviet regime at same time was father of soviet thermonuclier bomb? Why he tried his best mind and abilities to create such weapon? And he wasn't only one.
Same way academician Korolev - the father of missile technology of Soviet Union.
Why all them who opossed soviet regime helped to reach paritet with United States for same regime?
I have already told you that Russians are a lost Polish tribe. ==
I would rather agree if you say that we all polacks and russians form 2 lost slavic tribes.
Why is it depraved? Churchill was the one who said an Iron Curtain was descending upon Europe. The USSR had occupied Eastern Europe, and the realization that Hitler should have been stopped after he invaded Austria was still fresh.
Had we nuked Russia, Europe would have been almost twice the continent that it is today from a GDP standpoint. The cold war cost lives too.
Patton was dead right. He continues to be, given the fact that Russia continues to cost us, especially in the Middle East.
When Hitler died, the war wasn't over. We just got tired of fighting it, and Eisenhower was more European than American by the time the war ended.
I don't exaggerate. The problem is that you are too literal. Your definition of slavery is too narrow. Some slaves were given a fair amount of personal freedom by their masters (not all slaves worked in cotton fields and not all women were raped). But their status as slaves did not change - heard about Dred Scott case? Some slaves were even quite affluent people, but they were stiil at the mercy of their masters. Their favour could have been withdrawn at any moment. The Czechs and Slovaks thought that they were free, when all of a sudden in 1968 it turned out that they were wrong. They just forgot to ask their masters permission to do with their country what they liked. Slavery is a permanent state - when your independence is taken away from you, you're a slave. Whether you work on a cotton field or not is irrelevant.
When the Soviets invaded the Baltic States, the decision for many male Latvians, Estonians, and Lithuanians was a simple one---be once again under Russian control or join the Germany army and fight alongside them against Stalin and his troops.
"I have already told you that Russians are a lost Polish tribe. ==
I would rather agree if you say that we all polacks and russians form 2 lost slavic tribes."
How about this--Poles and Russians are from the lost Tribes of Israel -:)))))) Sounds cool -:))))
Your definition of slavery is too narrow. Some slaves were given a fair amount of personal freedom by their masters (not all slaves worked in cotton fields and not all women were raped). ==
My definition is based on enciclopedia.
Slavery is a permanent state - when your independence is taken away from you, you're a slave. ==
OK let use your definition above. I have question.
Does it mean that all southerners in United States are slaves?
According your definition the independence of Southern States was taken away from them as result of Civil War 1965.
Then they are slaves. The victors from North are masters.
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