Posted on 05/02/2005 6:18:32 PM PDT by pissant
Hey, just speaking the obvious...if you can't read a post that I wrote and realize that when I am quoting Meyer in it, it is her speaking, well, that doesn't show much for your brainpower. :)
It appears you and I are in agreement about more than one thing on this thread.
No, but Reverand Ike did, along with diamond and medallions.
I don't find that.Give me your reference.
Why do you think she isn't taxed? Her organization most likely isn't taxed but her personal income is taxed.
Billy Graham sees fit to only accept a small salary ( and has for many years). I don't know the dollar amount but it is apparently very modest.
Nothing like a good shot of reality before the Sunday Nascar race.
During one program...Tilton had a mountain of prayer requests stacked on a table.
He ran...and hurled himself upon it.
Letters flying every which way.
Tilton ...screaming for Jesus to come help!
Joyce Meyer is dull....boring.
She is however very good for calibrating the color on your T.V.
Crisp red and blue dresses.
Yes....Thankyou Joyce : )
I don't think anybody could ever top Benny Hinn, not even Smilin' Bob Tilton. Tammy Faye Bakker and her crying jags came close, though.
I notice that Peter Popoff is back on television (he got caught in his hucksterdom a few years ago).
The flatly un-Biblical "prosperity doctrine," in all it's grubby glory, on display yet again...
"I didn't have that thing for five minutes and I said, 'OK, God. Next I'll take $5 million,'" Meyer later told an audience in Tampa.
I'm sure her rabid fans will weigh in to tell us that Jesus would've approved...
"Joyce Meyers doesn't ask for donations, or tithing to her organization. She does teach about tithing as being biblical - but never says "send it to ME."
Is directly contradicted by a direct quote from the "evangelist" herself, here:
"She lectured for nearly an hour before ending with the same plea she'd been delivering for a decade: "Make your checks payable to Joyce Meyer Ministries/Life in the Word. And million is spelled M-I-L-L-I-O-N."
(From the link posted above in #176)
Wrong. Don't know what book you studied, but it didn't say "Bible" across the front. I'd also suggest changing churches.....and fast.
Isn't their a famous Christian song..."Oh I want to be there"
When Benny Hinn gets weighed in the balances...that should be interesting.
I would not be suprised to see him just inside the pearly gates...in the Abu Graib section ......standing there
With a pair of panties on his head!!
The guy next to him in the Bunny suite will certainly be John Kerry : )
I am embarrased to say that I have sent money to Joyce Meyer's ministry in the past. Never again! I got disgusted when I heard about all her plastic surgery. She's another Joan Rivers.
The shallow theological preening is one thing; the willful contempt for what the Bible plainly says--spewed in ever-multiplying layers of self-serving distortions--is quite another.
That bracing mixture of spiritual arrogance mingled with Scriptural ignorance never fails to shock the genuine Christian: God is an ATM--a Santa Claus with a cash-box!--and if only you'll send your "offering" to this address! Visa & Mastercard accepted, of course...
A smarmy, non-Biblical business it is, from stem-to-stern, and spoken of in the Second Epistle of Timothy (1-5):
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having a form of godliness but denying its power
lovers of money...having a form of godliness but denying its power.
That's the essence of the "prosperity doctrine," in a nutshell.
And I, for one, am grateful to the Almighty that He's seen fit, no matter my other failings and shortcomings, to grant me passage through this life uninfected with a scummy speck of it.
Who said anything about "name it and claim it" or Heaven being one big ATM???? You assume far too much and you have clearly shown your ignorance on the subject. Save it.
What is the source of the quote? Until you source it so I can verify it, I don't believe it. Show me. If you are correct and the context of the quote is what you imply, I will concede to you on this. Until then, your credibilty is still on shaky ground.
What do you feel is the biblical basis for today's tithing of 10%? How do you read Deut 14:22-29?
It was for a celebration, for the tither's own family, for taking care of the priesthood (who had no land inheritence) as well as for those who had no means to provide for themselves - widows and orphans, and for sharing with strangers.
That aside though, I think Cecily's point (if I may be so bold) is that the new covenant clarified and enhanced tithing/charitable giving the same way the new covenant did with the rest of the law, in that the standard is actually higher than originally thought.
For example, Jesus said that a man commits adultery simply by thinking lustful thoughts, and a man commits murder simply by hating his brother. He made the law a condition of the heart rather than that of outward acts. Same goes for giving. Paul expounds on it in 2 Corinthians 9; most specifically in verse 7 -
"Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."
Can the OT tithing requirements be extrapolated to include support of pastors and the helpless today? Absolutely, without question, and so we do and should. But when is the last time we threw ourselves a party with our 10%? :)
We can tithe time, service, material goods, as well as money. In my opinion, the spirit of the law is what is most important here, and what God asks of us is that we give selflessly, willingly and joyfully. The more we give with that attitude, the more blessed we will be. And I don't necessarily think that means blessed materially - we'll be blessed spiritually, ie in our hearts, which was Jesus' whole point, imo.
"That aside though, I think Cecily's point (if I may be so bold) is that the new covenant clarified and enhanced tithing/charitable giving the same way the new covenant did with the rest of the law, in that the standard is actually higher than originally thought."
I agree. Jesus Christ upped the ante on keeping the Law of Moses in Matthew 5 ("You have heard it said, but I say to you ...."). It makes you realize just how much you need the atonement He made for our sins. Regarding the tithes in Israel, I have read that tithes were never money. They were always agricultural products. One example is your referenced verse Deuteronomy 14:24.
Right, turns out tithes were never money (and I don't think I ever realized that til today), although in Deut 14, they could be converted into money, but only temporarily - if the household lived too far away from the designated gathering spot to carry their agricultural tithe there; later, the money was to be used to buy cattle etc, so actual money wasn't given, as we do today.
This discussion prompted me to do a google on tithing and I came across a point I had never considered before, admittedly in an article that was clearly anti-tithing, especially to those of televangelist caliber.
Anyway, that point was, none of the NT letters discussed tithing, or used the word at all in reference to giving, and Jesus only mentioned tithing twice, both times in condemnation of the Pharisees. You'd think they would at least have used the word in context, if it was important pertaining to giving, which they discussed a bunch. And none of the early church fathers did either.
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