Posted on 05/01/2005 2:15:23 PM PDT by wk4bush2004
LONDON (AFX) - Airbus Industrie is edging ahead of Boeing Co in a race to secure a 6 bln usd (4.6 bln eur) order from Emirates airline for its A350 mid-range aircraft, according to The Business.
The newspaper did not name its source, but said Airbus's A350 aircraft is ahead of Boeing's 787 model for an order for up to 50 mid-sized aircraft.
Talks between Airbus and Emirates are taking place this weekend. The A350, an A330 derivative, is emerging as favourite because the Boeing flagship plane is too small for Emirates' requirements. Price will also determine the winner, the newspaper said.
The order could be announced at June's Paris air show, it said.
At the same time the UK government, desperate to boost manufacturing in the wake of carmaker MG Rover's collapse, is preparing to offer controversial launch aid for the A350, the newspaper added.
Come on Boeing, offer to stretch the 787-9. You CAN'T let Airbus win this! Get your sales teams in there! You MUST be flexible with your customers. You can't afford to lose Emirates.
I seem to remember that there are docking-at-the-gate issues with the larger European aircraft. Further, the airlines have to look at the technology, speed, fuel consumption cost, etc.
When I have traveled to Europe and South America, you do not see Chevy Suburbans on the road. Ergo, bigger is not always better. IMOHO
You've got a point. It's the sad, but unfortunate truth, that Airbus will use this chance to get Emirates to order the A350, even though they're ordering an inferior aircraft.
"At the same time the UK government, desperate to boost manufacturing in the wake of carmaker MG Rover's collapse, is preparing to offer controversial launch aid for the A350, the newspaper added."
Most likely.
It'll be funny when Emirates runs a bunch of European state owned airlines into bankruptcy using the EU's Airbus planes. The kangaroo route is one of the few high traffic trunk routes where the A380-900 might actually make sense.
The game is rigged in Airbus' favor. France and other EU governments subsidize Airbus and cover it's massive losses.
Aeropspatiele(sp?) is basically a socialistic jobs program for France, UK, Spain, Italy, and several other EU nations. It can sell planes for nothing down and no payment due on principal for up to ten years in certain circumstances. Boeing as a private company can't match a subsidized deal like that.
My son is a pilot with a major U.S. airline. When the company went shopping for planes to replace it's old Boeing 727 fleet, Airbus made it a deal it couldn't refuse given it's poor financial condition. As a result, he is now flying Airbus 319s and 320s instead of the 727s he had flown for years. He says the Airbus' are good planes and he likes the fly by wire control system now that he's gotten used to it, but personally I would feel more at ease if he was still flying Boeings.
I think that even if 10-20 years out there is a market for 500-1000 passenger aircraft, it won't be the Airbus A380 that benefits. Boeing is using their CATIA systems to cut down the design time for aircraft down to 3 years. The technology Boeing is developing for the 787 and later the 737 replacement, will be just as applicable to very large aircraft. Boeing could develop a composite bodied large twin that could destroy the market for the A380. With every new model of 777 and 787 Boeing keeps increasing the limits of ETOPS. They will supposedly test 330 minute ETOPS during the testing of the 777-200LR. If 330 minute ETOPS ever gets approved for commercial operation, there will hardly be any place on Earth except Antarctica off limits to twin engined aircraft.
The A380 was actually designed too conservatively. It was optimized for the 900 model not the 800 model. A modernized 747 with seat mile costs below the 800 model is definitely feasible, while costing just a fraction of the cost of A380 development. Such a plane would preempt the development of the shrink 700 model and take away sales from Airbus.
Hence the 747 Advanced.
Boeing has already picked GE to be the sole supplier of engines for it. I doubt they'd go to that much trouble if they weren't going through with the program. So, even if Boeing only sells 250 of them over 20 years, that's one a month. That is 1,000 engines plus spares for GE, and 250 or so A380-700s and A380-800s not built.
Besides, just how many A350-900's will Emirates Airways order? Even a 40-plane order may not justify the considerable amount of money Airbus will have to spend to develop the plane.
All they need are a few orders from the Euro carriers to launch the thing. Air Frog, Lufthansa, LOT, CSA, Iberia, and probably KLM will likely order the A350 with some coming as early as the Paris airshow.
Isn't Emirates state owned? I figured they'd go with the 787 to balance out the a380 orders. Besides the 787 is the better plane.
I think you can forget about Air France, Lufthansa, LOT and KLM ordering the A350 at least for now. Air France already has a substantial A330-200, A340-300 and 777-200LR medium-sized widebody fleet, LOT--being a bit more pro-American than most of Europe--will more likely favor the 787-9, Lufthansa itself has enough long-range planes with its own A340-300, A340-600, and 747-400 fleet, and KLM already is getting A330-200's and 777-200ER's for long-range flights. Besides, the fuel-efficiency improvements of the A350 won't be as good as that of the 787, hence the reason why up till now interest in the A350 has been kind of low.
Emirates wanted Boeing to make the 787-900 stretch even longer than Boeing did. This would undercut the low end 777-200 model. I'm sure that in the future Boeing may consider a 787-1000 model that would compete better in capacity agaist the A350, but not till they start delivering the 900.
One of the reasons why I have my doubts Air France would order the A350 for now is the fact the plane won't have enough premium seating space, something that Air France values especially for their transatlantic flights to South America. They'd probably order more 777-200ER's if they need more medium-capacity long-range operations. LOT in the end will probably favor the 787-9 mostly because it has the range and the right seating capacity to serve LOT's transatlantic routes to JFK and ORD year-round; also, Airbus will have to pay a very substantial amount of money to train LOT flight crews, cabin crews and ground crews to operate the A350, something Airbus might not want to do again given the enormous amounts of money spent to train EasyJet personnel to operate the A319.
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