Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

DEAD RECKONING (Scientific and Spiritual Significance of Near-Death Experiences Studied
San Diego Union-Tribune ^ | May 1, 2005 | Mark Sauer

Posted on 05/01/2005 9:38:53 AM PDT by Scenic Sounds

When Deb Foster died in a La Jolla hospital, she found herself on a stairway surrounded by cats and dogs and mesmerized by a celestial blue sky, the likes of which she had never seen on earth.

Mary Clare Schlesinger hovered above her bed in the intensive-care unit, watching her husband and daughter react in shock and fathomless grief at the thought of her passing.

Beverly Brodsky said she went on a spectacular journey through a tunnel of intense light, a magic ride with angels and a shapeless God to a place of perfect knowledge, wisdom, truth and justice.

All three said the journeys on which they embarked while "clinically dead," a period of a few moments when their hearts stopped, transformed their lives and left them with no fear of death.

They are not alone.

Many patients – a notable study says nearly one in five – who are revived following cardiac arrest report memories of their brief time at death's door. They undergo a lucid, often indelible experience, even though they were unconscious with flat brain scans during the moments in which their hearts were still.

The near-death experiences, or NDEs, described by the three San Diego patients contain many of these typically reported elements:

An out-of-body experience; acute awareness; moving through a void or tunnel toward bright light; meeting deceased relatives; a life review; feelings of intense joy, profound peace – a feeling so blissful they longed to remain; and seeing a point of no return.

Increased survival rates from faster responses to cardiac-arrest calls, extensive CPR training, development of portable defibrillators and other improved methods of resuscitation mean more and more people could be expected to have near-death experiences.

Though it may sound like the stuff of supermarket tabloids or the latest New Age religion, NDEs are attracting the attention of distinguished practitioners who study both the body and mind.

"Some may say this is the brain's survival mechanism, that there is a physical explanation," said Dr. Vivian Ellis, an obstetrician at Scripps Memorial Hospital who resuscitated Deb Foster after assisting with her Caesarean section.

"But I think there is definitely a spiritual aspect to this," said Ellis. She has practiced obstetrics at Scripps for 15 years and said she has had several patients who reported NDEs to her.

"Whatever happens, it is more than science. This raises fascinating questions about human consciousness, and about light and time."

Yet many physicians remain skeptical about near-death reports.

Dr. Robert Sarnoff, a pulmonologist who revived Mary Clare Schlesinger at La Jolla's Green Hospital in February 2001, said that in 25 years of taking care of gravely ill patients, she was the only one who has reported an NDE.

"It is not a big topic on my radar screen," Sarnoff said.

Other San Diego cardiologists and trauma specialists declined to even discuss the subject.

Dr. Pim van Lommel said he often encounters this response from colleagues.

He is a cardiologist in the Netherlands who led a 13-year study of the NDE phenomena. The results were published in 2001 in the respected British medical journal Lancet.

"NDE is not a rare phenomenon," said van Lommel in an e-mail interview. Yet NDEs are, to many physicians, "an inexplicable phenomenon and hence an ignored result of survival in a critical medical situation."

"Physicians must be open and must take the time to listen to patients without prejudice."

A most serene place

After her baby was delivered by Caesarean section on Dec. 11, 2002, Deb Foster was wheeled into a recovery room. As attendants moved her from gurney to bed, something awful happened.

She suffered an amniotic-fluid embolism, a rare obstetric emergency in which amniotic fluid entered her bloodstream, passed into her lungs and caused cardiac arrest.

For more than three minutes, the then-42-year-old, who already had a toddler at home, was clinically dead. Though unconscious, Foster says she had the most clear and profound experience of her life:

"I left that room and went to a staircase that was going up into the sky. It was so high, up past the clouds. I am afraid of heights, but I had no fear, even though there were no railings," she said.

"I could look off to the distance and see beautiful rolling hills. The sky was the most unimaginable color of blue that doesn't exist in this life."

Foster started crying as she described this beauty.

"There is simply peace. No chaos. No pain; the most serene place you can imagine, a perfect moment in time."

Foster said she believed in God but questioned her faith and was uncertain about an afterlife before this experience.

"Now there is no question in my mind; there is a God, there is a heaven."

Scientific analysis

Van Lommel noted that the effects of NDEs "on patients seem similar worldwide, across all cultures."

He said he became interested after reading the book "Return From Tomorrow" by George Ritchie, an Army private who in 1943 was revived after "dying" from a bout of pneumonia.

"I started to ask patients who had survived a cardiac arrest if they could remember something" from when they were unconscious, van Lommel said.

That led to a study of cardiac patients who had lapsed into unconsciousness because of anoxia (deficiency of oxygen) at 10 Dutch hospitals between 1988 and 1992.

The patients ranged in age from 26 to 92; 75 percent were men. Most were interviewed within five days of being clinically dead.

Of 344 patients, 62 – or 18 percent – remembered something of the time they were dead, van Lommel said.

Two-thirds of those (41 patients) had a "core," or extremely vivid, NDE while the other 21 were determined to have had a superficial NDE, he said.

Dr. Ellis of Scripps said the fact that most resuscitated patients do not report NDEs may be likened to the fact that some people vividly remember dreams while others have no memory of them at all.

Surviving patients in van Lommel's study who reported NDEs were interviewed again at two-and eight-year intervals, and compared with a control group of patients who did not have the experience.

Researchers were struck, van Lommel said, by how the NDE patients had been transformed.

Nearly all had no fear of death, believed in an afterlife, and strongly believed that what was truly important in life was "love and compassion for oneself, for others and for nature."

"What might distinguish the small percentage of patients who report an NDE from those who do not?" van Lommel asked. Neither the duration of the cardiac arrest, or unconsciousness, or differing resuscitation techniques had any effect on the frequency of NDE.

"Neither could we find any relationship between the frequency of NDE and any administered drugs, fear of death before the arrest, fore-knowledge of NDE, religion nor education."

Researchers ranging from those with scientific degrees to devotees of the paranormal to practitioners of New Age religions agree that the phenomenon of near-death experiences raises more questions than can currently be answered.

One is: If NDE is physiologically based, why doesn't every patient who recovers from cardiac arrest/coma report them?

Another is, if patients whose hearts and brain activity have stopped remember vivid experiences, what does that say about the origin of the conscious mind?

One thing is certain, van Lommel said: "The NDE is transformational, causing profound changes of life and insight and loss of the fear of death."

A perfect light

In 1970, when Beverly Brodsky was 20 and living in Venice, Calif., the motorcycle she was riding on was hit by a car driven by a drunk.

Brodsky, who is married with a grown daughter and is retired after 28 years as a federal employee, said she suffered severe head injuries and lacerations to her face.

"They released me from the hospital with no pain medication. I was in agony."

Though raised in a Jewish family, Brodsky said she was an agnostic at the time. As she lay in bed, Brodsky said, she feared she would pass out from the pain.

"I wanted to die. I remember praying: 'God, if you are there, take me.' With that prayer, I was lifted up out of my body. I had these terrible head injuries and pain, and I had been legally blind before. But suddenly my eyesight was perfect.

"On the ceiling was an angel in flowing white robes that glowed from within, like a lantern. I believe I was clinically dead at that point.

"He took my hand, and we flew out the window. I had no fear. We were over the ocean, and above us was this dark area. At the end of it was a pinpoint of light, brighter than anything I had ever seen. It was like a tunnel, and we went into the tunnel.

"It was a light that contained all things; everything that ever was or will be was in this light.

"There were no words, no form, no face, no structure. All communication happened telepathically. I thought, well this isn't the guy on the Sistine Chapel ceiling, but this must be God."

Brodsky has three shelves of books about NDE in her Chula Vista home. She moderates a monthly meeting for those who have had such experiences and is active in national NDE groups.

"I have never come to doubt my experience," she said. "I see it as a great gift from God. I'm honored I was allowed to remember."

Glimpse of afterlife

Long relegated to the realm of the paranormal, NDE burst on the scene 30 years ago when Raymond Moody, an East Coast psychiatrist, published "Life After Life," examining reports of near-death experiences – a term Moody coined. It sold 10 million copies worldwide.

Other books and articles and studies followed, including several by Kenneth Ring, now professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Connecticut and co-founder of the International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS).

Ring studied thousands of NDE reports, including some by blind patients. He concluded that religious orientation was not a factor. An atheist was as likely to have one as someone devoutly religious, according to Ring, who retired from the NDE field in the late 1990s.

Regardless of their backgrounds, most patients were convinced they were in the presence of some supreme being and loving power, and had glimpsed a life yet to come.

Ring, who concluded NDEs do not have the rambling, disconnected nature of hallucination, said patients who reported them came away with strong feelings of self-acceptance, a great concern for others and more appreciative of life – more loving and more spiritual.

The power of love

Mary Clare Schlesinger is among the apparent minority who do not see religious overtones in her near-death experience.

"I had an out-of-body experience. But I see it as part of life, not a religious experience," said the 56-year-old Escondido woman. She suffered respiratory failure four years ago from complications due to post-polio syndrome and a severe virus.

Schlesinger said she was placed on life support in the intensive-care unit and realized she was dying. "Time suddenly became very important. I could slow it down or speed it up," she said.

"Time slowed down, enabling me to go through all of my life and consciously forgive everyone who had ever hurt me. Then it was easy to let go."

Schlesinger, who was raised Roman Catholic, said that from her perch in the hospital room, she looked down and clearly saw herself in bed and her husband and daughter at her bedside.

"I saw Dr. Sarnoff come into the room, and I knew I had a chance; I knew he could bring me back. I saw Steve and Rebecca, saw how shaken my daughter was, and I decided to come back.

"It was not as if I were weighing a choice, though. As soon as I saw Rebecca and Steve's faces, all the energy and strength available went into coming back.

"I had incredible peace and acceptance. ... It is a different kind of energy, strength and power. Survival was more about love. The love I have for life and the people I love and the love they have for me is very powerful."

When she had recovered and returned home, Schlesinger wrote a poem about her experience, which concludes: "... my heart and soul into one/a union of love becomes ME."

Skeptics weigh in

NDEs can be explained by neurochemistry and are the result of brain states that occur due to a dying, demented or drugged brain, notes Robert Todd Carroll in "The Skeptics Dictionary."

Carroll cites British researcher Susan Blackmore's conclusion that the feelings of extreme peacefulness – almost universal among NDE reports – are the result of endorphins released due to the extreme stress of the situation.

"There are two basic hypotheses," said Paul Kurtz in an interview. He is a retired philosophy professor, well-known secular humanist and founder of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, one of the nation's largest skeptics' groups.

"One, something leaves the body, the spirit or soul, goes to another realm, returns and reports. Two, this is a physiological process that alters consciousness, triggers bright lights, tunnel vision, out-of-body experiences and the like.

"That latter makes much more sense to me."

Van Lommel concedes that "neurophysiological processes must play some part in NDE."

Similar experiences can be induced through electrical stimulation in patients with epilepsy, he noted, and are seen with "cerebral hypoxia, as in rapid acceleration during training of fighter pilots."

"Also, NDE-like experiences have been reported after the use of drugs like ketamine, LSD or (psilocybin) mushrooms." But the perception of light, sound flashes and recollections with drug use are more fragmented and far less panoramic than that of an NDE, he said.

Most compelling to van Lommel and many other NDE researchers is what the experience suggests about one of the great medical mysteries – the nature of human consciousness.

"Traditionally, it has been argued that thoughts or consciousness are produced by large groups of neurons or neuronal networks," van Lommel said. "How could a clear consciousness outside one's body be experienced at the moment the brain no longer functions during a period of clinical death?"

The suggestion made by van Lommel and other NDE researchers is that the mind may not entirely be the product of matter. And "at the time of physical death, consciousness will continue to be experienced in another dimension."

Van Lommel said he likes to compare our brains with computers: "The Internet is not produced by the computer, but received by it. And in the same way, our brain functions as a receiver, not as a producer, of consciousness."

There are still more questions than answers, he acknowledged.

"We finally should consider the possibility that death, like birth, may well be a mere passing from one state of consciousness to another."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: afterlife; lifeafterlife; nde; neardeathexperience
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-44 next last
To: All

This is one of my favorite passages in the Bible.

1 Cor 15: The Resurrection Body

35But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”

36What a foolish question! When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn’t grow into a plant unless it dies first.

37And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a dry little seed of wheat or whatever it is you are planting.

38Then God gives it a new body—just the kind he wants it to have. A different kind of plant grows from each kind of seed.

39And just as there are different kinds of seeds and plants, so also there are different kinds of flesh—whether of humans, animals, birds, or fish.

40There are bodies in the heavens, and there are bodies on earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the beauty of the earthly bodies.

41The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their beauty and brightness.

42It is the same way for the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies, which die and decay, will be different when they are resurrected, for they will never die.

43Our bodies now disappoint us, but when they are raised, they will be full of glory. They are weak now, but when they are raised, they will be full of power.

44They are natural human bodies now, but when they are raised, they will be spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, so also there are spiritual bodies.

45The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit.

46What came first was the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later.

47Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven.

48Every human being has an earthly body just like Adam’s, but our heavenly bodies will be just like Christ’s.

49Just as we are now like Adam, the man of the earth, so we will someday be like Christ, the man from heaven.

50What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These perishable bodies of ours are not able to live forever.

51But let me tell you a wonderful secret God has revealed to us. Not all of us will die, but we will all be transformed.

52It will happen in a moment, in the blinking of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, the Christians who have died will be raised with transformed bodies. And then we who are living will be transformed so that we will never die.

53For our perishable earthly bodies must be transformed into heavenly bodies that will never die.

54When this happens—when our perishable earthly bodies have been transformed into heavenly bodies that will never die—then at last the Scriptures will come true:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

56For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power.

57How we thank God, who gives us victory over sin and death through Jesus Christ our Lord!


21 posted on 05/01/2005 11:01:46 AM PDT by Ready2go (Isa 5:20 Destruction is certain for those who say that evil is good and good is evil;)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: mtbopfuyn
"...What the heck was Beverly Brodsky, who was legally blind, doing on a motorcycle?..."

Perhaps she is legally blind without corrective lenses or contacts as I am. It is perfectly legal for me to drive a car and a motorcycle provided I wear glasses or contacts.

I also understand being without either after surgery. Few can understand the frustration of regaining consciousness after surgery, and having a nurse take 2 hours to return your glasses.
22 posted on 05/01/2005 11:04:28 AM PDT by pizzalady (Truth triumphs!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: jocon307
"...Are there documented cases of these? Did those people turn their lives around?..."

There was a program on TV several years ago based on people who had near death experiences which were highly disturbing. Many describing screaming, fire, fear and darkness. Several said they were grateful for a second chance to make amends. Sorry I don't recall the name.
23 posted on 05/01/2005 11:15:00 AM PDT by pizzalady (Truth triumphs!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Zeroisanumber

"When the brain shuts down due to lack of oxygen, you have some pretty interesting hallucinations."

Yes, a lot of these experiences sound like the same feelings one gets sitting in the dentist's chair, breathing nitrous oxide.


24 posted on 05/01/2005 11:19:21 AM PDT by Voir Dire
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: lafroste
This is a great book to read on the Hell experiences!

TO HELL AND BACK
By Doctor Maurices S. Rawlings

To Hell and Back is not a religious book, even though it is about life after death. Dr. Rawlings (the author...who WAS a atheist) is not a theologian or a pastor, but a cardiologist. Dr. Rawlings writes of the experiences of his own patients brought back to life. Here are some excerpts from his book.

"With the advent of new resuscitation techniques people can now be brought back to life after being dead several minutes. Just what happens after death. Eleven million Americans have reported near death, or out of body experiences. The typical description involves a beautiful light at the end of a tunnel. Many Christians are convinced that the light is Jesus Christ, because they often saw a figure on a cross. Some others perceive a heaven conforming to their own particular faith. Remarkably, others see the bright light turn into a ring of fire." (pg 10)

"Among the resuscitees who claim to have had a spiritual experience, the experience becomes so real that the victim is transfixed by every detail. While there are many positive experiences, there are also, as we shall soon see, many negative experiences." (pg 32)

WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE SEE LIGHT?

Why do people almost always report seeing a light and feeling only peace & serenity after a near death experience? Many religions associate their leader with light, and as mentioned in the Christian faith, both God and Lucifer claim to be light. It is crucial in near death experiences to identify this source of light -- whether the light is a true representative of God, or a luring mirage of evil that imitates God as an all forgiving force (pg 59).

Christians often perceive the light as Jesus, while a Jewish person might perceive the light as a representative of Jehovah God, yet a Hindu might envision Brahma, Vishnu, or Shiva, etc... (pg 61). But misrepresentations do in fact occur. One day I (Dr. Rawlings) performed CPR on a man who had been shot in the chest during a bank robbery. During CPR this man told me that he had an out-of-body experience, during this time he said he encountered the heavenly light, he was surprised at what surrounded him. There was no ridicule or rejection, the sordid parts of his life were not examined, and no mention was made of the couple he had killed three years before during a robbery. (pg 61).

I think that many of the experiences which seem to be positive, are positive only because it is a trick from Satan himself tricking people into believing that there only is peace and serenity after death (regardless if a person is Christian, Moslem, Atheist, Hindu, Jewish, or whatever); in this way people of all faiths are tricked into believing that there is no accountability, or no judgment.

The book is full of people who have had near death experiences, (both positive and negative). Skeptics dismiss these near death experiences as the result of a oxygen-depraved mind, while Theologians think that often these people are seeing none other than Satan himself... (pg 47).

NOT EVERYONE SEES LIGHT.

Not everyone sees light and reports peace and serenity. Dr. Rawlings explains it this way: As a general rule people remember that which is good, and forget that which is bad, and so if the interview is delayed just a little bit -- much less days, weeks, or months after the fact only the positive experiences will be found (pg 33).

Case in point. As stated earlier, many people see this tunnel of light turn into a ring of fire. Here are a couple of examples:

"I (Dr. Rawlings) was watching a monitor to guide a pacemaker into my patients heart when it happened: his heart stopped. This is the story. The patient recounts his story in this way: I blacked out and then you (Dr. Rawlings) hit me on the chest saying 'excuse me.' ... Somebody was yelling. Something crashed over my left shoulder, everybody went crazy. And then I was out of it. I was floating, pitch black, moving fast. The wind whistled by and I rushed toward this beautiful blazing light. As I moved past, the walls of the tunnel caught fire. Beyond the blazing tunnel a huge lake of fire was burning like an oil spill. Elongated shadows showed that people were moving aimlessly about like animals in a zoo enclosure. Down the hill I saw an old friend who had died -- the last I recall they were dragging the river for him, 'hi there Jim' I called out. He just looked at me, didn't even smile. They were taking him around the corner when he started screaming: I ran, but there was no way out. I kept saying 'Jesus is Lord, Jesus is Lord.' Suddenly I was back in my body, as you were putting in the stitches." (pg 72).

Another account is found on page 75. It goes like this: (one of Dr. Rawlings patients talking) "I was guided to a place in the spirit world called Hell. This is a place of punishment for all those who reject Jesus Christ. I not only saw Hell, but felt the torment that all who go there experience. The darkness of Hell is so intense that it seems to have a pressure per square inch. It is an extremely black, dismal, desolate, pressurized, heavy, type of darkness. It gives the individual a despondent feeling of loneliness. The heat is a dry, dehydrating type: your eyeballs are so dry they feel like red hot coals in there sockets. Your tongue and lips are parched and cracked with intense heat. ... The loneliness of Hell cannot be expressed." (pg 75).

Yet another story follows: "I (Dr. Rawlings) was giving CPR to a patient when the following incident occurred. I inserted a pacemaker through the shoulder and guided it through the vain into Charlie's heart. His heart stopped so I began to pound on the his heart, but as I did blood spurted out, I stopped to adjust the pacemaker. And as I did, Charlie's eyes would roll back in his head, he would sputter, turn blue, and convulse. This happened several times. Once while I was stopped to adjust the pacemaker Charlie screamed, 'Don't stop, don't stop, I'm in Hell, I'm in Hell.' Hallucinations, I thought at first, but most victims say, 'Take your big hands off me, your breaking my ribs,' but he was saying the opposite 'For Gods sake don't stop! Don't you understand, every time you stop I'm in Hell. When he asked me to pray for him I felt downright insulted. I told him to shut up, I'm a doctor, not a minister or a psychiatrist. Then the nurse gave me that expectant look. What would you do? That's when I composed a make believe prayer. I made him repeat the prayer to keep him off my back. Say it! Jesus Christ son of God, Keep me out of Hell. And a very strange thing took place. He was no longer that wild-eyed screaming lunatic. It was then that I too (Dr. Rawlings) became a Christian." (pg 37).

As I said earlier, Dr. Rawlings is not a Theologian, or a Minister, rather an unbiased Doctor who has written the findings of the patients he has resuscitated.



SCRIPTURES FROM THE BIBLE:

HELL: Hell is a real place, a place of torment.

Luke 16:19-31 Says this:
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Can I repeat that. Verse 24 says:
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

HELL IS A PLACE OF SORROW & PAIN
Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth..."

HELL IS CALLED A LAKE OF FIRE
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 20:10 were cast into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



HEAVEN

Heaven on the other hand, is a place of beauty, of life, service, worship, and glory.

John 14:1-3 says
"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Rev 19:1-3 says
"And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever."

Rev 4:10-11 says
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

A description of heaven is given in Rev 21:1-22:7
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

"And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.



NO MORE SIN, NO MORE SORROW, NO MORE PAIN, GOD WILL BE THERE, GREAT PEOPLE WILL BE THERE, ONLY PEOPLE THAT ESTEEM OTHERS HIHGER THEMSELVES (Phil 2:3 says Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; let each esteem other better than themselves).

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.(Rev 21:4)

Prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.(Rev 21:2).

I CANT WAIT.
http://www.emjc3.com/helland.htm
25 posted on 05/01/2005 11:35:00 AM PDT by Ready2go (Isa 5:20 Destruction is certain for those who say that evil is good and good is evil;)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Congressman Billybob
I too had a NDE, and it was a beautiful experience. A Glorious light that was indescribable, and such peace and calm.
26 posted on 05/01/2005 11:40:30 AM PDT by Ready2go (Isa 5:20 Destruction is certain for those who say that evil is good and good is evil;)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: queenkathy

It's a wonderful book too.

My glimpse of eternity
Betty Malz's near-death experience

See at Amazon

In July of 1959, in Terre Haute, Indiana, when Betty Malz was twenty-seven years old, she was pronounced dead and a sheet was pulled over her head. In her book, My Glimpse of Eternity, Betty describes her experience on the other side and how she returned to her body to the stunned amazement of her grieving father and hospital personnel. Her book is the story of how God dealt with a proud, materialistic, controlling woman who had to die to learn how to live. The following is an excerpt from her book describing her near-death experience.




The transition was serene and peaceful. I was walking up a beautiful green hill. It was steep, but my leg motion was effortless and a deep ecstasy flooded my body. Despite three incisions in my body from the operations, I stood erect without pain, enjoying my tallness, free from inhibitions about it. I looked down. I seemed to be barefoot, but the complete outer shape of my body was a blur and colorless. Yet I was walking on grass, the most vivid shade of green I had ever seen. Each blade was perhaps one inch long, the texture like fine velvet; every blade was vibrant and moving. As the bottoms of my feet touched the grass, something alive in the grass was transmitted up through my whole body with each step I took.

"Can this be death?" I wondered. If so, I certainly had nothing to fear. There was no darkness, no uncertainty, only a change in location and a total sense of well-being.

All around me was a magnificent deep blue sky, unobscured by clouds. Looking about, I realized that there was no road or path. Yet I seemed to know where to go.

Then I realized I was not walking alone. To the left, and a little behind me, strode a tall, masculine-looking figure in a robe. I wondered if he were an angel and tried to see if he had wings. But he was facing me and I could not see his back. I sensed, however, that he could go anywhere he wanted and very quickly.

We did not speak to each other. Somehow it didn't seem necessary, for we were both going in the same direction. Then I became aware that he was not a stranger. He knew me and I felt a strange kinship with him. Where had we met? Had we always known each other? It seemed we had. Where were we now going?

As we walked together I saw no sun - but light was everywhere. Off to the left there were multicolored flowers blooming. Also trees, shrubs. On the right was a low stone wall.

My emotion was a combination of feelings: youth, serenity, fulfillment, health, awareness, tranquility. I felt I had everything I ever wanted to have. I was everything I had ever intended to be. I was arriving at where I had always dreamed of being.

The wall to my right was higher now and made of many-colored, multi-tiered stones. A light from the other side of the wall shone through a long row of amber-colored gems several feet above my head. "Topaz," I thought to myself.

Just as we crested the top of the hill, I heard my father's voice calling, "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus." His voice was a long distance away. I thought about turning back to find him. I did not because I knew my destination was ahead. We walked along in silence save for the whisper of a gentle breeze ruffling the white, sheer garments of the angel.

We came upon a magnificent, silver structure. It was like a palace except there were no towers. As we walked toward it, I head voices. They were melodious, harmonious, blending in chorus and I heard the word, "Jesus." There were more than four parts to their harmony. I not only heard the singing and felt the singing but I joined the singing. I have always had a girl's body, but a low boy's voice. Suddenly I realized I was singing the way I had always wanted to ... in high, clear and sweet tones.

After a while the music softened, then the unseen voices picked up a new chorus. The voices not only burst forth in more than four parts, but they were in different languages. I was awed by the richness and perfect blending of the words - and I could understand them! I do not know why this was possible except that I was part of a universal experience.

While the angel and I walked together I sensed we could go wherever we willed ourselves to go and be there instantly. Communication between us was through the projection of thoughts. The words sung in all the different languages were understandable, but I don't know how or why. We all seemed to be on some universal wave length.

I thought at the time, "I will never forget the melody and these words." But later I could only recall two: "Jesus" and "redeemed."

The angel stepped forward and put the palm of his hand upon a gate which I had not noticed before. About twelve feet high, the gate was a solid sheet of pearl, with no handles and some lovely scroll work at the top of its Gothic structure. The pearl was translucent so that I could almost, but not quite, see inside. The atmosphere inside was somehow filtered through. My feeling was of ecstatic joy and anticipation at the thought of going inside.

When the angel stepped forward, pressing his palm on the gate, an opening appeared in the center of the pearl panel and slowly widened and deepened as though the translucent material was dissolving. Inside I saw what appeared to be a street of golden color with an overlay of glass or water. The yellow light that appeared was dazzling. There is no way to describe it. I saw no figure, yet I was conscious of a Person. Suddenly I knew that the light was Jesus, the Person was Jesus.

I did not have to move. The light was all about me. There seemed to be some heat in it as if I were standing in sunlight; my body began to glow. Every part of me was absorbing the light. I felt bathed by the rays of a powerful, penetrating, loving energy.

The angel looked at me and communicated the thought: "Would you like to go in and join them?"

I longed with all my being to go inside, yet I hesitated. Did I have a choice? Then I remembered my father's voice. Perhaps I should go and find him.

"I would like to stay and sing a little longer, then go back down the hill!" I finally answered. I started to say something more. But it was too late.

The gates slowly melted into one sheet of pearl again and we began walking back down the same beautiful hill. This time the jeweled wall was on my left and the angel walked on my right.

Then I saw the sun coming up over the wall. This surprised me since it was already very light and there seemed to be no passing of time. It was a lovely sunrise. The topaz and other stones glowed brilliantly. I remember noticing that the wall now made a deep shadow on my side.

Walking down the hill I looked into Terre Haute as the worlds of spirit and time and space began to fuse back together. Ahead of me were many church steeples glistening in the morning sun. I was suddenly aware of God's love for all His churches. It was a sudden bit of knowledge, as if I were being told this on the inside by the Holy Spirit. At that moment I loved all His churches too; and as my prejudices dissolved, I loved all His people.

Then I saw the tops of trees, then the hospital. My eyes seemed to bore through the walls of the hospital like laser beams, down the hall of the third floor to Room 336. I saw a figure on the bed with a sheet pulled over it.

After my descent I slowed down and stopped. The sun's rays were in my eyes. There were dust particles in the light which suddenly changed to wavy letters about two inces high flashing before me like a ticker-tape message. The letters seemed composed of translucent ivory, only fluid - moving through the rays of the sun.

I was back in my hospital bed now and the letters stretched all the way from the window, past my bed and on into the room. They read: I am the resurrection and the life; he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.

The words were so alive that they pulsated. I knew that I had to touch those living words. I reached up and out and pushed the sheet off my face. At that instant the Word of God literally became life to me.

http://www.bibleprobe.com/my_glimpse.htm


27 posted on 05/01/2005 11:54:06 AM PDT by Ready2go (Isa 5:20 Destruction is certain for those who say that evil is good and good is evil;)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: jocon307
I just assumed she was the passenger, since it said she was "riding" on the motorcycle, and not driving it.

That what I assumed too, I also took the blindness to be the result of the multiple head injuries.

It's a good thing that one lady saw both cats and dogs

I've always said, If there are no cats in heaven, I'm not going.

Regards,
GtG

28 posted on 05/01/2005 12:07:33 PM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, but I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Dallas59
It says in the Bible..."The dead know nothing..."

No wonder the dead vote Democrat!

29 posted on 05/01/2005 12:19:05 PM PDT by Petruchio (... .--. .- -.-- / .- -. -.. / -. ..- - . .-. / .. .-.. .-.. . --. .- .-.. ...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: jocon307

Yes. Look up the book "To Hell and Back" by Maurice Rawlings, M.D. by Thomas Nelson Publishing out of Nashville, Tennessee.

It was published in 1993. The book focuses on negative NDE experiences (wherein many of the people who return claim to have literally escaped from Hell).


30 posted on 05/01/2005 12:27:22 PM PDT by Buckeye Battle Cry (Life is too short to go through it clenched of sphincter and void of humor - it's okay to laugh.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Scenic Sounds

While that sense of bliss may accrue to most in NDE or DE, near term, I'll postualte that things change as the clock in the closer dimensions of spiritual time tics out (unrolls). At first the released "soul" is incredibly liberated and so feels a genuine ecstasy -- but as spiritual levels of time are experienced post death, one comes to take account of the what-could-have-beens, the shouldn't-have-beens, to considerable shock for some. So my present thinking is.


31 posted on 05/01/2005 12:34:11 PM PDT by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Quix
Hey, Quix, a coincidence LOL! Those people in a prayer group at Joel what his name's church in Houston prayed and got this poster back from the "other side."

I know, how could that be because Joel what his name from Houston is a televangilst, Heaven forbid. So, Quix, must have been brain chemicals released while that sheet was over my face that made me hallucinate being in Heaven--not anything to do with Joel what his name in Houston's prayer group.

Those nurse's aides were just playing a silly joke on this poster when they said this poster sat up on his gurney in the icebox and started asking where that Jesus fellow ran off to...

32 posted on 05/01/2005 12:50:15 PM PDT by Ff--150 (But My God shall supply all your need)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dallas59

Hmmmm? Sometimes the Bible's references to the "dead" are about a spiritual deadness - not a physical deadness.


33 posted on 05/01/2005 1:19:50 PM PDT by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Dallas59

Romans 8:22

22For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

23And even we Christians, although we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, also groan to be released from pain and suffering. We, too, wait anxiously for that day when God will give us our full rights as his children, including the new bodies he has promised us.

24Now that we are saved, we eagerly look forward to this freedom. For if you already have something, you don’t need to hope for it.

25But if we look forward to something we don’t have yet, we must wait patiently and confidently.



2 Cor 5: We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long for the day when we will put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing.

3For we will not be spirits without bodies, but we will put on new heavenly bodies.

4Our dying bodies make us groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and have no bodies at all. We want to slip into our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by everlasting life.

5God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

6So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord.

7That is why we live by believing and not by seeing.

8Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord.

9So our aim is to please him always, whether we are here in this body or away from this body.

10For we must all stand before Christ to be judged. We will each receive whatever we deserve for the good or evil we have done in our bodies.


34 posted on 05/01/2005 1:20:36 PM PDT by Ready2go (Isa 5:20 Destruction is certain for those who say that evil is good and good is evil;)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Zeroisanumber

My 92 yr old mom has hallucinations and sees her family members who have already passed away [she has dementia]. But .. she's not having an NDE - because she's NOT NEAR DEATH - she's very healthy. Near Death is just that - near death. Passing out or being deprived of momentary oxygen is not an NDE.

Sorry .. cannot put NDE's and hallucinations in the same category. They are different and happen for different reasons.


35 posted on 05/01/2005 1:30:26 PM PDT by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

bump and save for later


36 posted on 05/01/2005 1:32:00 PM PDT by krunkygirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Ready2go

Yes that's the book. I met her in person several years ago. She was exciting to listen to. Whatever she "saw" was real to her and sounds good to me too!


37 posted on 05/01/2005 1:43:16 PM PDT by queenkathy (Don't give up. Moses was once a basket case.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Petruchio
No wonder the dead vote Democrat!

That is hillarious.LOL And I like your tagline too!

38 posted on 05/01/2005 1:44:20 PM PDT by queenkathy (Don't give up. Moses was once a basket case.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Ff--150

Joel Steen


39 posted on 05/01/2005 1:45:37 PM PDT by queenkathy (Don't give up. Moses was once a basket case.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: queenkathy

Osteen, not "Steen."


40 posted on 05/01/2005 1:58:22 PM PDT by TimeLord (A whale fetus is a whale; a human fetus is a blob.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-44 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson