Methodists to Reinstate Defrocked Minister

Associated Press ^ | Friday, Apr. 29, 2005 - 11:51 AM | FOSTER KLUG Associated Press Writer

[RobertP]

Methodists to Reinstate Defrocked Minister Updated: Friday, Apr. 29, 2005 - 11:51 AM

By FOSTER KLUG Associated Press Writer

LINTHICUM, Md. (AP) - The United Methodist Church reversed itself Friday, deciding to reinstate a lesbian minister who was defrocked after revealing her relationship with another woman.

A church panel voted 8 to 1 to set aside an earlier decision to defrock Irene "Beth" Stroud for violating the church's ban on openly gay clergy.

The Philadelphia minister said she was relieved by the ruling and hopes the church will become more inclusive to people regardless of sexual orientation.

After Stroud disclosed the relationship to her congregation two years ago, the church defrocked her, meaning that she could no longer serve communion or baptize anyone. She kept the title of associate minister and worked in a lay capacity at the First United Methodist Church of Germantown in Philadelphia.

"The church is not free to disregard the standards of justice and inclusiveness that are preached by Jesus Christ ... and are a part of church law," Stroud said after church authorities read their decision at a hotel.

"The ruling gives us hope that the United Methodist Church has the resources to do justice," she said.

[gobucks]

As a Methodist (even if it is a renegade conservative church), I can say this: that paragraph was pure red communistic crap.

Thanks for pointing out that I need to look harder at the exit sign...

[HarleyD]

"The official policy against Homosexuality will be intact in the Catholic Church long after the UMC has started approving of child molesters and chicken sacrifices."

The policy will be intact and ignored. Personally I think the Catholics are in far greater peril then they would like to admit. However, every time someone brings up a problem a 1,000 Catholics attack them as being "bias" or "anti-Catholic" as was AxelPaulsenJr.

But that's OK. At some point in time, after you have to closed enough dioceses and sold them off to settle pedophile lawsuits, perhaps the Catholics will wake up. If not I'll place my bid of $200 for Michaelangelo's David during the great Vatican Flea Market sale.

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "The policy will be intact and ignored. Personally I think the Catholics are in far greater peril then they would like to admit."

I agree Catholics are in greater peril then they would like to admit, but I suspect for a very different reason. I disagree with you on the UMC policy. It will change as well as be ignored until it is changed. I have given this a lot of thought, I was not trying to be hurtful but making reference to a trend that most people have ignored event though it is right in our face.

You see I used to be Protestant and I first turned to the Catholic Church during the height of the Child abuse crisis. This was 2002 right after 9/11 and well before the present crisis in the Episcopalian Church. This would not make sense if one only looks at the surface of any Church crisis. If I required a Church filled with perfect people I would never find a Church unless I turned to the Church of Me, I would still have imperfect people(or in this case person) but it would be the more tolerable sort (or so I would be able to fool myself into thinking). So the Lesbian in the pulpit or the child molester priest or the crook stealing from the congregation, while troubling is not cause for leaving any denomination. It is the Doctrine of the Faith that matters. Even neglectful governance is less of a reason. Christianity is a 2000 year old faith (really much older but let us leave that for now) and there have been plenty of times administration was not what it should be. This is true for all denominations no less so for the Catholic Church or the UMC.

Perhaps you may not agree with the above but it in part explains why Catholic in the middle of crisis was no worry for me while other faiths appearing less troubled frightened me. Allow me explain why I ran from the Protestant Faiths I grew up with. (this includes Episcopalian, Presbyterian, UMC and Baptist family connections) All of these are tampering with their doctrine/policy and this Lesbian is just the latest in a long list of issues which have been changed in my lifetime, perhaps yours as well. Right now the doctrine concerning homosexuality is being watered down but think where your Church stood on divorce in the 1970's It is different I bet. We both know the present situation on divorce is not supported by scripture nor does the UMC Church traditions support it (even the Episcopalian traditions do not support divorce despite the favorite barb of every Catholic). Not convinced? How about women ministers? Some Protestants have a tradition of this but I do not remember UMC being one of them. It matters not because I am referring to this doctrine/policy in regards to Protestant Churches in general and most have allowed it only in the 20th century. Need another example? Standards of dress, when I was a child every single woman had hat and gloves while all the men were in a suit and tie every Sunday. The hat is based on Scripture and the other is cultural but is a sign of respect. This has disappeared almost everywhere. I have more examples. Abortion UMC, ECUSA, PCUSA, Friends, and many others are actively supporting abortion. This is pure evil and yet people still put money in the collection plate. How about birth control? With the exception of the Episcopalians almost every Protestant faith considered condoms a scandal as recently as 1955 here in Virginia. You had to have a Rx to get any form of BC until a syphilis crisis; even then the Churches fought this first step in separating the pleasure of sex from the purpose of sex. Is it any wonder a Lesbian minister wonders why you wish to deny her pleasure and "Love"? //gag//

I could go on and on but the Catholic Church is looking more and more antiquated on doctrine every year but many of these issues the Protestant Churches have surrendered while the Catholic holds the fort. Issues in which both were in agreement just a few decades ago. This trend shows no sign in stopping, which is why I said the child molester will be consider acceptable and to quote Bishop Robinson (ECUSA) "sacred" when referring to the love he holds for his male Lover. //gag// IN the late 1980's the PCUSA had a committee do a study and make recommendations on Church policy in regard to human sexuality. They reported back RECOMMENDING extramarital affairs, premarital teen sex, childbirth out of wedlock, abortion and the real kicker (I will never forget the wording) non-exploytive adult child sex. //jaw on the ground every time I think of it// As if there is such a thing as non-exploytive sex between an adult and a young child. The Elders rejected the recommendations amidst much negative publicity but they never fired anyone. These people are in almost all the Churches and they are working away behind the scenes. They float their trial balloons and try again because your churches let them. Just as the PCUSA still has these people working on undermining that Faith's faith.

I understand attachment to you church, I stayed Episcopalian much longer than I should have but if you do not get control of your denomination quick you will find your grandson being raped and everyone in your church looking at you wondering why YOU are such a bigot. Catholics have a problem, bishops who do not do their job as they should, nutty theologians who have no hope of changing doctrine (so they try to run end runs around them) and all sorts of problems but the doctrine is there ready to drop on the wayward as soon as better shepherds enter the stage. But where is the hope of turning the corner on contraception, divorce and many other policies that are contrary to scripture in the UMC today? Policies that are new to your Faith.

Remember the warning of Lot, even the righteous are corrupted from too much exposure to an evil community.

[Goodgirlinred]

I guess I am going to have to find a PCA if my church won't get out of the PCUSA. :(

[Mark in the Old South]

Your criticism of the RCC is valid. I have done the same but the RCC does not have changing this doctrine/policy on their itinerary the UMC, PCUSA and many others do. We have loads of flaky theologians and some Bishops that support them but there is no plan to change the teaching of the church (well there are some who plan lots of things but they are not in a position to effect their sick fantasies). And as soon as that flaky Bishop is replaced by a better shepherd the whip will crack. That will not be so easy in the churches that have modified their teachings on these matters. Consider the up hill fight a UMC pastor or Bishop will have if he wants to go back to the UMC policy on birth control or female pastors of 50 years ago. It will make the RCC Bishop's problems seem like a mole hill.

[TaxRelief]

The conservative Anglican branches:

http://www.theamia.org/
http://anglicanprovince.org/deusaddresses.html
http://www.acahome.org/index.htm

PCA:

http://www.pcanet.org/
http://www.pcanet.org/general/beliefs.htm
http://www.pcanet.org/general/history.htm

[TaxRelief]

You're right about most white branches of the Anglican Church. As a matter of fact, the AMIA is the African mission back to the lands from whence their religion came.

[oceanperch]

Been that way many years for me.

I tell you life is so much more peaceful.

[oceanperch]

LOL

[TaxRelief]

PCA does its mission work outside of the community for some reason that I've never understood. They pour a goodly portion of their collections into sponsoring overseas missions. They also organize mission trips that send doctors to poverty stricken islands, etc. Within the country, they focus also on missions that help widows, etc.

I have noticed that our local Methodist church is very active in the food banks, homeless shelters, etc.

PCA almost always starts a school in their area. You might say that they spend less time feeding people's stomaches and more time feeding people's souls. :-)

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>I am not leaving the Methodist Church, it is leaving me.<<<

The prophets wrote this perversion was going to happen:

"... this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits" -- Isaiah 30:9-10

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine" -- 1 Timothy 1:9-10

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." -- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

[Koblenz]

Here's what I've read on this:

The local clergy court de-frocked this woman. Then she appealed to the Northeastern Appeals court in the church, and they issued some decision with incredibly tortured logic that says that the woman could be reinstated, since UMC doesn't say what homosexual acts are or some damned thing.

This court is the UMC's version of the 9th Circuit Court. It's a little nuts. Just about everyone believes that when the national court of the UMC reviews this case, that Stroud woman is going to be re-defrocked...

[little jeremiah]

Homosexual Agenda Ping.

A little late to the party - already a wide ranging discussion going on about Methodist teachings, practices, grandfather preachers, and converting to Catholicism - and the lesbian "minister" - de-frocked, re-frocked, and the possible future frockings.

Let me know if you want on/off this pinglist.

Note: It still amazes me that anyone - ANYONE - can think that a sexual deviant can preach God's truth. I mean, the Bible is crystal clear on the subject.

[SAWTEX]

This was reversed on a technicality but will be temporary.
The paragraph below comes from the Book Of Discipline which
to The United Methodist serves as the equivalent of the US Constitution and must and will be followed period.

Get the entire story at WWW.UMC.org and I do not blame those of you who are a bit cynical about the World Council Of churches but they DO NOT represent anything like a majority of we Methodist.





Regarding the ministry of the ordained

¶304.3

While persons set apart by the Church for ordained ministry are subject to all the frailties of the human condition and the pressures of society, they are required to maintain the highest standards of holy living in the world. The practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching. Therefore self-avowed practicing homosexuals1 are not to be certified as candidates, ordained as ministers, or appointed to serve in The United Methodist Church.2
1. "Self-avowed practicing homosexual" is understood to mean that a person openly acknowledges to a bishop, district superintendent, district committee of ordained ministry, board of ordained ministry, or clergy session that the person is a practicing homosexual. See Judicial Council Decisions 702, 708, 722, 725, 764, 844.
2. See Judicial Council Decisions 984, 985.

¶ 341.6

[Nov3]

Slither back under whatever rock you slithered out from.

[Nov3]

But it is in no way a national policy of the Methodist church.

de facto it definitely is.

[Nov3]

Thank God that is good news

[CurlyBill]

Gay Ministers is not a policy of the Methodist church either, the minister was defrocked, and apparently now reinstated. But it is in no way a national policy of the Methodist church.

Get real!!! You would NEVER see a Catholic panel of Clergy reinstate an openly gay priest during an official hearing. Apparently, with an official panel of Methodist Clergy, this was policy. I have not read about it being overturned. I live only 5 miles away from where this "panel" met. What a shame!

[Jim Noble]

You would NEVER see a Catholic panel of Clergy reinstate an openly gay priest during an official hearing

No offense, my brother, but doing it behind your back is no better.

[d-back]

Reality check time for the Methodists: Your Northeastern Appeals panel voted Eight to One that an openly lesbian minister CANNOT be defrocked. That's an official panel, a governing arm, of the United Methodist Church expressly approving lesbianism, and affirming that a leader of the Methodist Church, a minister, can be an active lesbian.

Now you guys can point all you want to homosexual priests in the Catholic Church who have violated their sacred vows, and you can even criticize, properly, the weak and immoral bishops like Law who helped shuffle the worst offenders from parish to parish. But please stop kidding yourself: the reason why the Catholic Church's story is so appalling is that these priests and bishops flouted the Church's consistent teaching and discipline regarding homosexuality.

The reason why the UMC story is so appalling is that your church is approving open homosexual behavior by your ministers.

Freepers are conservatives, they're supposed to be able to see these differences. No one here is "taunting" the UMC for its slide into official apostasy on the issue of homosexuality, but please don't say it ain't happening. It is, and the UMC panel's decision is your proof.

Maybe members of the UMC will fight and win, as AppyPappy suggests, and it is possible that the UMC's supreme governing panel will reverse this decision. Good luck to you, Christian brethren. But if you don't succeed, the Catholic Church will be waiting for you with open arms, as She has always been.

Peace to all.