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Infallibility has its limits (Mario whines about Benedict XVI)
NY Daily News ^ | 4/28/05 | Mario Cuomo

Posted on 04/28/2005 6:54:05 AM PDT by pissant

Many of us who cling desperately to our Catholic Church for instruction, inspiration and support prayed that a new Pope would help heal the church's serious wounds and reconnect it more surely to modern realities. Instead, the cardinals have chosen a good and holy man who, we are told, rather than reform the status quo will reaffirm it more insistently than before.

The current challenge of the church is twofold.

First, it must continue proclaiming the unalterable and unchallengeable truths of Christ, instructing us to love one another as we love ourselves and to collaborate in improving the world that God created but did not complete.

That includes the obligation to be generous to those in need, and to avoid unjust and unnecessary wars that kill innocent people.

To deny these eternal and unchangeable truths of Christ is to renounce the Catholic Church.

The second challenge is to reassess the alterable rules made for us by the male descendants of Peter who were and are humanly frail, as he was, and to readjust those rules to better serve the purpose of helping modern Catholics to live fuller and holier lives in this ever-changing world. This would include, among other things, reconsidering celibacy, women's role in the church and other contentious man-made church policies.

The church can do this without abandoning its fundamental commitment to the Gospel of Jesus, and has in fact done it in the past in changing its position on slavery, usury, salvation outside the church and divorce.

The church is extremely hesitant about using or even defining the idea that it is "infallible" in its teaching. None of the currently contentious issues has been so designated. In fact, the church asserts its infallibility only under strictly defined limits, and it has happened very few times in church history. The only formal exercise of papal infallibility in modern times was by Pope Pius XII and dealt with Mary, the mother of Christ.

Despite this history, our new Pope's record and the opinion among Vatican watchers offer little hope for meaningful changes or even for a clear admission that its man-made rules are indeed alterable by the church that made and enforces them.

But then, ours is a church that continues to entertain the possibility of miracles, big and small and is capable of startling and invigorating changes of course like the ascendance of John XXIII, who gave us the Second Vatican Council that brought Catholicism a bright new enlightenment in the 1960s.

Hope springs eternal.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: benedictxvi; cino; cuomo; idiot; popemario; popewannabes; ratzinger
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To: ClaireSolt

"There is a doctrine of papal infallibility which states that the Pope is infallible when he claims to be and is peaking on matters of faith and morals. It is a very recent claim that a pope made when he was besieged by French and Italian armies which took away papal lands in the late 19th century. It is not a prerogative that other popes have claimed."

Papal infallibility is not a "claim" it is a doctrine of the Faith. It must be believed to be Catholic. It is a basis upon which the teachings of the Church are founded. If there were no guarantee of infallibility then there would be no use to follow any teaching of the Church - just make up your Faith as you go along. And---the result is Protestantism.

But, guys like Cuomo and the other Liberal US Catholic wanna-bees hate the idea of Papal Infallibility for just these reasons. They want to be able to make the Catholic Faith whatever they want it to be. This would allow them to remove all guilt and moral opposition - hence this attack in print.


61 posted on 04/28/2005 8:39:09 AM PDT by lnbchip
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To: Alberta's Child

I'm not so sure that his snide remarks about slavery and usury are correct, either.

But imprecise allusions are the hallmark of the Father of Lies and his mortal allies.


62 posted on 04/28/2005 8:40:31 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: BlackElk

Jim Doyle, Governor of Wisconsin. Not only a CINO, but as corrupt as any Chicago or Brooklyn pol could dream of.

David Obey, MC, (D) WI--told Bp Burke to shove it where the sun doesn't shine re excommunication of pro-abort CINO's (of which club he is a very proud member.)


63 posted on 04/28/2005 8:43:37 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: ClaireSolt

Your take is mis-informed and includes gratuitous and incorrect calumnies (I'm sure they were unintentional, right?)


64 posted on 04/28/2005 8:47:27 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: pissant
Nice. Any part of the Bible that interferes with complete freedom to do whatever you want whenever you want with whomever you want is 'alterable.'

I agree with him that priestly celibacy is alterable, though. That is a Church tradition and is not Scriptural.

65 posted on 04/28/2005 9:08:15 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: karnage

Cuomo is the Ex-Governor of NYS. I lived there when he was elected (in 84 I think). He ran it as a model of liberalism driving most jobs out of state, except government jobs. He vetoed the death penalty bills a number of time because he said he had to because it was against his moral beliefs. But then he said Abortion was against his moral beliefs, but he had no business applying those beliefs to his job as governor (not kidding!!) How did he defend this major contradiction? By accusing the Republicans of being hypocrites ,of course. By the mid 90s NYS was a huge mess, so he was booted. To this day he blames hatred of the poor on his rejection, and like Air America he has to be seen, to be believed.


66 posted on 04/28/2005 9:17:16 AM PDT by marylandrepub1 (If you think it's expensive now, wait till it's free!)
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To: marylandrepub1

Guess I should have put a smiley face on my post. I know who Cuomo is - only too well - but since he's such a has-been, I was just using the classic FR "who is he?" to illustrate his irrelevance.


67 posted on 04/28/2005 9:38:08 AM PDT by karnage
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To: BlackElk
GOVERNORS/FORMER GOVERNORS:

Tom vilsack (D) IA

68 posted on 04/28/2005 9:39:24 AM PDT by conservonator (Lord, bless Your servant Benedict XVI)
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To: pissant
"But then, ours is a church that continues to entertain the possibility of miracles, big and small and is capable of startling and invigorating changes of course like the ascendance of John XXIII, who gave us the Second Vatican Council that brought Catholicism a bright new enlightenment in the 1960s."

Since when has John XXIII become the new poster boy for progressives and the Lavender Mafia? This FICTION that "once the church was on the cusp of sanctifying abortion and birth control, gay unions, euthanesia in the 1960s, then the bad heterosexual white men came along and spoiled the party..."

They've created an entirely imaginary advocate... check out the John XXIII AIDS Ministry http://www.johnxxiii.org

"...John XXIII recognizes that an HIV diagnosis often means a reassessment of spiritual values. Do I feel supported in this life transition by my spirtual values? Our Emotional Support Department is committed to hearing the questions and helping people put a voice to their own beliefs..."

69 posted on 04/28/2005 10:12:51 AM PDT by Antioch (Benedict XVI: "I think the essential point is a weakness of faith.")
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To: karnage
Who is Mario Cuomo?

A blowhard, forcibly retired politician who bloviates on any and every subject to make himself feel important and to hear himself talk.

70 posted on 04/28/2005 11:35:37 AM PDT by 1Old Pro
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To: pissant

They're closing parish churches in St. Louis, but I'm sure you are right that there are places where it is healthier. But you bypass the point about the couple hundred mill in settlements.

But I wish we wouldn't argue. Seriously. I only want the best for the Mother Church and I want the freaks, weirdo's and deviants excommunicated and gone, just like I want the Episcopal church to be cleansed.

Unfortunately, I'm not so sure there is a mechanism to cleanse the Episcopal church so I may ride the schism wave back to Rome in the end, or hop over to a Roman parish and take Catechism class and be Received. Maybe I'd better not wait too long. Hmmmm.


71 posted on 04/28/2005 11:37:38 AM PDT by johnb838 (Free Republicans... To Arms!)
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To: Gerish

Mario is in the long tradition of the gnostic heretics.


72 posted on 04/28/2005 11:41:52 AM PDT by gaspar
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To: johnb838

I wasn't trying to argue with you per se. It was that from my vantage point, I've seen great improvements in the Catholic Church over the last couple of decades. I think JPII stopped the bleeding.

But you are absolutely correct about the whole "priests gone wild" crap and its aftermath. Hopefully Benedict will continue to clean house!


73 posted on 04/28/2005 11:42:26 AM PDT by pissant (house burgundy for you, missy!)
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To: johnb838

The Episcopal Church cannot be cleansed. Why? It is argumentative whether Darwin or the German royals (including those of the present generation) were more damaging to the Church of England (and thus to Episcopalians). Darwin assured the elitists, albeit obliquely, that rampant promiscuity was OK; the final nail in the coffin was when the German royals, through their own actions and neglect of the Church, instructed the flock that it was OK not to believe.


74 posted on 04/28/2005 11:47:22 AM PDT by gaspar
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To: johnb838
Check this link for Roman Catholic growth info in USA. It's also my understanding RC membership is growing everywhere except in Europe.

----excerpt---- Among the gainers, four religious bodies showed double-digit increases-- between 16 percent for Catholics and 19 percent for Latter-Day Saints (Mormons). The only other Christian body showing a gain was the Southern Baptist Convention at nearly 5 percent.

It can be noted that, except for Catholics, all those bodies gaining members between 1990 and 2000 generally are considered “Conservative Protestants,” while most of those showing a decrease in number of adherents generally are considered “Moderate” or “Liberal” Protestants.

75 posted on 04/28/2005 11:55:01 AM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("Memos on Bush Are Fake but Accurate". NYTimes)
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To: pissant; sockmonkey; Salvation; kstewskis; ELS; marshmallow; patent; Romulus; ninenot; BlackElk; ...
Re: Mario Cuomo

Dear Pope Benedict XVI, Your Holiness:

We have a failure to excommunicate here. Please do your papal best and bap this bozo.

Yours faithfully in the temper of St. Columba,

Siobhan

76 posted on 04/28/2005 11:59:23 AM PDT by Siobhan ("Christianity is, by its very nature, joy -- the ability to be joyful." -- Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger)
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To: gaspar

I had the same reaction to Mario's comment on God not completing His creation. What???

"the Second Vatican Council that brought Catholicism a bright new enlightenment in the 1960s." The intention was to remove mandatory Catholic practices which were considered to be more valid as optional, pious practices, such as meatless Fridays (I still go meatless on most Fridays). Upgrading the language of the mass to the vernacular was a help for understanding. Mario gets it wrong however, since the so-called "spirit of Vatican II" was not meant to throw out the entire culture and popular piety to the point that long-held Catholic practices became nearly extinct over the last 35 years. This is the precise situation we are in now, and the exact reason that Pope Benedict will very likely encourage a return to some of the more beautiful aspects of liturgy which were too hastily discarded. He believes many of the problems in the church is due to a lack of faith; trust in the Lord with all your heart, and great things can and will happen!


77 posted on 04/28/2005 12:11:53 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: gaspar

I will buy what you say about the coffin nails in the CofE, though I don't really know. I'm just saying it may not be possible to cleanse it because the enforcement mechanisms do not exist. It really is NOT one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (or part thereof) it is a system in which each diocese is largely a power unto itself. Griswold and the communist/secularists at the top have no power over us but we have no power to shut them up except to withold donations, which I am doing.


78 posted on 04/28/2005 12:12:16 PM PDT by johnb838 (Free Republicans... To Arms!)
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To: pissant

I hope Benedict does. I was saying to the other poster that I don't think the Episcopal church can be cleansed because there is no mechanism with which to do it. With the RC there is Excommunication, which seems to have fallen largely out of favor. Let us hope that Benedict revives it.

I will probably join you soon. The Holy Spirit will show me the way.


79 posted on 04/28/2005 12:14:06 PM PDT by johnb838 (Free Republicans... To Arms!)
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To: johnb838
Whatever you do, John, I will pray for God's blessings for you. I know how devastating it is for Episcopalians to watch their beloved church in such distress and led by heresiarchs and petty heretics. You may want to get a copy of The Book of Divine Worship used by the Roman Catholics of the Anglican Use.

(You can order one from Our Lady of Walsingham (office@walsingham-church.org) in Houston or the GIFT NOOK at Our Lady of the Atonement in San Antonio.)

80 posted on 04/28/2005 12:14:50 PM PDT by Siobhan ("Christianity is, by its very nature, joy -- the ability to be joyful." -- Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger)
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