Propiedad de Vivienda por Hispanos Alcanza Su Nivel Más Alto

Let's start over. I call this ad pandering. You say it's good advetising. I say, "Yep. Pandering". To which you explain that the democrat party got it's strength by pandering. I say, "You've proved my point".

I say that you need to improve your English vocabulary skills.

Since this discussion revolves around the issue of how to interact with individuals who may lack a mastery of the English language, it would be beneficial to define the proper meaning of the English word “pandering”.

According to Webster’s Dictionary:

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1. pan-der [ME Pandarus] 1.a. : a go-between in love intrigues B: PIMP 2: someone who caters to or exploits the weaknesses of other.

2. pander, pan-dered. pan-der-ing: to act as a pander; esp.; to provide gratification for other’s desires < the audience is vulgar and stupid , you’ve got to pander to them – Herman Wouk >

Text of the PANDARUS link: PANDARUS, in Greek legend, son of Lycaon, a Lycian, one of the heroes of the Trojan war. He is not an important figure in Homer. He breaks the truce between the Trojans and the Greeks by treacherously wounding Menelaus with an arrow, and finally he is slain by Diomedes (Homer, Iliad, ii. 827, iv. 88, V. 290). In medieval romance he became a prominent figure in the tale of Troilus and Cressida. He encouraged the amour between the Trojan prince and his niece Cressida; and the word " pander " has passed into modern language as the common title of a lovers' go-between in the worst sense.
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In short, in proper English usage, the word “pandering” is reserved for the gratification of vulgar and immoral desires or someone who exploits the weakness of an individual with such vulgar and immoral desires, i.e., Pimps, drug dealers, child pornography dealers, etc.

That’s a hell of a slur to slap on an Eastern European Jewish immigrant in 1904 who may have required a Yiddish translation of Teddy Roosevelt’s campaign literature to fully comprehend it, isn’t it?

If that Eastern European Jewish immigrant in 1904 had English reading skills that were not fully up to the task of understanding a complicated campaign pamphlet written in English but required a Yiddish translation to fully understand it, the English language provides the following word for such a situation.

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fa-cil-i-tate: to make easier
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To improperly substitute the extremely inflammatory English word “pandering” when the English word “facilitating” is a perfectly accurate description is an example of the English word:

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dem-a-gogu-ery: the principles or practice of a demagogue (a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims in order to gain power.)
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Let us now put the vocabulary lesson aside and examine what happens in the Real World when the English word “pandering” is improperly substituted for the English world “facilitating”.

Scenario # 1: A delegation from Nippon Airlines travels to Boeing Headquarters in the U.S. to decide whether to purchase Boeing 777’s or European Airbus aircraft for that Japanese airline:

Boeing Executive: “And so, in conclusion, that is why we believe that the Boeing 777 is your best choice for Nippon Airlines. Here is a 200 page technical manual that fully describes the Boeing 777.”

Nippon Airways Executive: “If you please. My English reading power somewhat lacking. You have maybe that technical manual in Japanese translation?”

Boeing Executive: “Look, Mr. Osaka. This is America and we expect you to have fully mastered English when we are trying to sell you something here. I will not cater to your weakness in English reading skills. That would be pandering and that would be wrong.”

Nippon Airways Executive: Not to bother. Keep your manual. Nippon Airways will buy Airbus aircraft. Flock you. Goodbye!”

Scenario # 2: The year is 1904. A campaigner for the Penguin Party is trying to convince an Easter European Jewish immigrant to vote for the Penguin Party candidates instead of the Walrus Party candidate.

Penguin Party campaigner “Here is a pamphlet that tells you why you should vote Penguin instead of Walrus.”

Easter European Jewish immigrant: “My English reading not so good. Just learning but trying hard. You have maybe Yiddish translation like Walrus Party man had?

Penguin Party campaigner: “Hey, look here, Mr. Levy. This is America and we expect you to know how to read English just as well as any sixth-generation American. I will not cater to your weakness in English reading skills. That would be pandering and that would be wrong.”

Easter European Jewish immigrant: “Leave my property now you schmuck. I vote Walrus and my children will vote Walrus and their children will vote Walrus. Penguin Party can go to hell!

Scenario # 3: The year is 2005. A campaigner for the Penguin Party is trying to convince a fourth generation red-blooded American named Joe Levy to vote for the Penguin Party candidates instead of the Walrus Party candidate.

Penguin Party campaigner: “Here is a pamphlet that tells you why you should vote Penguin instead of Walrus.”

Joe Levy: “Penguin Party? Are you sh#tting me? I wouldn’t vote Penguin if my F#%$ing life depended on it. Our family votes straight Walrus! It has for 101 years!

Penguin Party campaigner: “Why would you not even consider voting Penguin?

Joe Levy: “Why? Because when my family first came to America in the early 1900’s, you #&&holes treated my great-grandfather like cr@p, that’s why! That’s why my great-grandfather never voted Penguin, that’s why my grandfather never voted Penguin, that’s why my father never voted Penguin, that’s why I never voted Penguin, and that’s why my kids will never vote Penguin. We voted Walrus because the Walrus Party never treated my family like dog sh#t the way you Penguins did! Now get the hell off my property!!!”

What you call “pandering”, is what I and Webster's Dictionary call “facilitating”.

“Facilitating” is what polite and wise people do when other people may need a little help because of some physical or educational shortcoming. Examples would be driving little old ladies to the store, reading for the visually impaired, speaking loudly when a near-deaf artillery veteran can’t hear you well, providing a Japanese purchaser of your product sales literature in Japanese that he can read well so that he will decide to buy your product, etc. etc.

“Pandering”, when properly used in English, means procuring whores, drugs, child pornography, vulgar entertainment and other such thing to moral degenerates.

Abraham Lincoln posed this question: “How many legs does a dog have?” The reply of course was four.

Lincoln asked, “If we call the tail a leg, then how many legs does a dog have?” The reply: Five.

“No,” Lincoln said, “Just because you call a tail a leg doesn’t make it so.”

2. pander, pan-dered. pan-der-ing: to act as a pander; esp.; to provide gratification for other’s desires < the audience is vulgar and stupid , you’ve got to pander to them – Herman Wouk >

So, unless Wouk's example is used out of context, then everyone has been using pandering in the wrong way for years. You better write all the newspapers, news shows, etc.

However, as I see the application of this term per our discussion the definition does apply. Hispanics desire to have things printed in spanish so they can understand them. Hence, "providing gratification for their desires". "Their desires" being the need for our government and increasingly, the American public, to try to communicate in spanish. "Not true", you say. Then why are all government forms now printed in spanish as well as English. And, if they are not "pandering (to provide gratification for other’s desires)" then why do it?

At the same time the GOP does not put out this ad in Polish, German, Gaelic, Swahili, Chinese, etc. Why not? Because ("to provide gratification for other’s desires" ) they clearly don't care about immigrants as much as you would like me to believe. They are only concerned about one group of immigrants. Hispanics. Why? Because they want their vote. How do they try to get it? Just like the democrats: "to provide gratification for other’s desires".

It would be different if they wanted the hispanic vote and at the same time attempted to get the hispanics to assimilate but instead the want to "facilitate" their remaining tied to the country of origin by not pushing learning English and assimilating. But again they would rather "provide gratification for other’s desires " then follow the Constitution and the established language of our country.

So, unless Wouk's example is used out of context, then everyone has been using pandering in the wrong way for years. You better write all the newspapers, news shows, etc.

In case you haven’t noticed, political discourse and the biased news media is brimming with distortion and demagoguery. If you want the proper meaning of a word, go to Webster's Dictionary and not to a political screed or a newspaper.

Republicans move ahead with plan to DESTROY Social Security

Hispanics desire to have things printed in spanish so they can understand them. Hence, "providing gratification for their desires".

That's a rather lame attempt at sophistry. You completely ignored the context of the Webster’s Dictionary definitions that specifically referred to the fact that the word “pandering” is properly used when those desires are vulgar and related to vices and weakness in character.

According to your sophistry, we would be “pandering” to your mother if we asked her if she wanted her coffee black, with cream or with or without sugar.

Your mother desired to have have her coffee black with two lumps of sugar. Hence, "providing gratification for her desires". Hence, been polite to your mother is the moral equivalent of "pandering" to your mother.

Gee, isn't sophistry fun. :-)

In regards to “what they want”, it would depend on the generation. Grandpa, who came to the U.S. as an adult might find the Spanish version easier to read. Dad, who came to the U.S. as a 12 year old might not care as he can read both English and Spanish equally fast. Junior, who was born in the U.S. and struggles with his Spanish, would prefer the English version .

At the same time the GOP does not put out this ad in Polish, German, Gaelic, Swahili, Chinese, etc. Why not?

Why not Polish or German or Gaelic or Swahili?

It’s called the Willy Sutton Rule. Willy Sutton, the bank robber, was asked why he robbed banks. He replied, ''Because that's where the money is.''

Hardly anybody in America still speaks those languages in the year 2005.

You might as well be writing in Latin.

Why not Gaelic anymore? Because Gaelic is today a nearly dead language which only a tiny fraction of even the Irish in Ireland itself can still speak.

Why not Polish? Because the first generation Polish American immigrants are long since dead. My mother-in-law’s family is of 100% Polish American bloodline and the only Polish words my third generation mother-in-law understands are “Kielbasa” and “Pierogi”.

Why not Danish? Because the first generation Danish American immigrants are long since dead. My father-in-law’s family is of 100% Danish American bloodline and the only Danish words my third generation father-in-law understands are “Bestefar” (Grandfather) , “Bestemor” (Grandmother) and “aebleskiver”.

Why not German? Same reason. Because the first generation German American immigrants are long since dead. Besides the Amish in Pennsylvania, how many Americans of German descent do you know that can still string together two sentences in German.

Swahili? Have you ever met a single African American who can speak an African language?

What about the Yiddish that was so common in New York in the early 1900’s? That language also died with the second generation Eastern European Jewish immigrants.

Immigration patterns change and with it change the languages that are most common with first generation immigrants.

In 1904, the first generation immigrants spoke Polish, German, Italian, Norwegian, Danish, Yiddish……..

In 2005, the first generation immigrants speak Spanish, Chinese, Arabic……..

If you are a Republican Congressional candidate in a district with a larger number of potential voters who read Arabic with much greater ease, you would hand out Arabic versions of your campaign platform if you have any interest in getting your message across:

George Ajjan …………..a Republican who hopes to upset Rep. Bill Pascrell Jr., D-Paterson……………Ajjan, whose grandparents emigrated from Syria to Paterson between 1910 and 1920, hands out campaign literature in both Spanish and ARABIC……………

If you are a Republican Congressional candidate in a district with a larger number of potential voters who read Chinese with much greater ease, you would hand out Chinese versions of your campaign platform if you have any interest in getting your message across:

............the California Chinese American Republican Association, said campaign literature has already been printed in Chinese. Moreover, an Asian American coalition is planning to travel “statewide to do outreach” and talk to the press in order to get “our story out,” he said. “This is an incredible opportunity because the Asian vote is wide open.”

Yeah , right.

The bottom line is that, throughout American History, American immigrants have always followed the same pattern:

The first generation struggles with English.

The second generation is at equal ease with English and their ethnic language.

The third generation struggles with their ethnic language and most often totally loses it.

I see it in my medical practice whenever I speak with a Mexican family. Grandma talks to me in Spanish. Mom bounces back and forth between Spanish and English and the kids talk to me in English.

I have no idea what your ethnic background is but, as I noted before, unless your family has been hiding for 200 in the deep woods of the Appalachian Mountains it would be almost impossible for you not to have a non-English speaking immigrant ancestor.

I can assure that, when that ancestor first set foot on American soil, his English was not very refined and, if a political party did not find it beneath them to try to communicate with him, they made an effort to communicate with him in his own language.

That is American History.

If you want the proper meaning of a word, go to Webster's Dictionary and not to a political screed or a newspaper.

I mis-typed when I used Wouk's example of the word pandering.

This part is from Webster's: 2. pander, pan-dered. pan-der-ing: to act as a pander; esp.; to provide gratification for other’s desires.

My employer offered us spanish lessons instead of offering them english lessons. I will not learn spanish simply to accommodate the destruction of my country.

You are a very good writer and intelligent, too. I was kind of playing with you. However, I don't see the bi-lingualization of America as a positive thing.

My father came here from Poland in '47. He learned english as soon as possible. He said he knew it was the only way to get ahead. Staying with Polish would have kept him back and he knew it. Nowadays that's not true. We are accommodating hispanics in every facet of our society. Part of my resentment stems from the fact that we are only accommodating hispanics and not all the other immigrants from different places. Couple that with the fact that we are not only accommodating legal hispanics but millions of illegals as well at the same time. We are "facilitating" millions of illegal hispanics but no others. Why?

I mis-typed when I used Wouk's example of the word pandering. This part is from Webster's: 2. pander, pan-dered. pan-der-ing: to act as a pander; esp.; to provide gratification for other’s desires.

The 1973 Webster's Edition I was using [it's an old, falling-apart, surplused book that I kept as a souvenier as it was my Medical Department's dictionary aboard the USS Long Beach (CGN-9) back in my Navy days] inserted the Wouk quote as its illustrative example that referenced the "vulgar" audience.

Actually, I agree with most of your assertions. What I cannot accept is that we are becoming a bilingual society - english and spanish. This does not foster a healthy society. My job is much more difficult when I have to deal with hispanics. They cannot tell what is wrong with the machines they are using and I am expected to fix. My employer offered us spanish lessons instead of offering them english lessons. I will not learn spanish simply to accommodate the destruction of my country. You are a very good writer and intelligent, too. I was kind of playing with you. However, I don't see the bi-lingualization of America as a positive thing. My father came here from Poland in '47. He learned english as soon as possible. He said he knew it was the only way to get ahead. Staying with Polish would have kept him back and he knew it. Nowadays that's not true. We are accommodating hispanics in every facet of our society. Part of my resentment stems from the fact that we are only accommodating hispanics and not all the other immigrants from different places. Couple that with the fact that we are not only accommodating legal hispanics but millions of illegals as well at the same time. We are "facilitating" millions of illegal hispanics but no others. Why?

As a matter of fact, I agree with all of that.

I see no problem with America being a land of hundreds of languages. America has always been such a land if you count the Native American Indian languages.

However, there needs to be ONE AND ONLY ONE lingua franca (that's "common language" for the Latin-impaired) and English happens to be it.

It is great if an individual is bilingual or trilingual or quadriligual but, for a society to function well, everybody needs to try to learn the common language to the best of his ability so that every American can communicate well with every other American.

I do not believe in conducting official Government business in any language other than English.

I see nothing wrong with political parties explaining the arcane complexities of the Bush Social Security Plan vs. the Kerry Social Security Plan to your Polish-born grandmother in Polish or my Cuban-born grandmother in Spanish if that is what is required to get the concept of "Prefunding Future Consumption" across to them. However, if they are U.S. citizens, they have a responsibility to know how to read an English-language ballot and have no right to be whining that they need a Spanish-language ballot or a Polish-language ballot.

I do not believe in so-called "bilingual education" as practiced today. From personal experience, I know that the only way to learn a language well is through immersion.

As I said originally, my Cuban family had been bilingual since the 1800's. My grandfather was sent to study in the U.S. in 1907 and my father studied in the U.S. in the 1930's. Back in Cuba when I was 5, when the adults wanted to discuss adult matters, they spoke English and left me in the dark.

Their parents agreed with your father and they were forced to learn English in the U.S. even when our families still lived in Cuba. English = Commercial Success = $$$$.

However, once we came to the U.S. after Castro, the rule was that you spoke only Spanish at home and you spoke only English at school. Spanish immersion at home and English immersion. That is how my generation became truly bilingual.

In high school in Miami, I was enrolled in a Cuban Jesuit school that had been a famous school in Havana. (Castro went to high school there.) When Castro took over power, the Jesuit Fathers packed up, moved to Miami and set up the school there.

Although most students were Cuban refugees who spoke Spanish and almost all the Jesuit Fathers were fluent in Spanish, all regular courses were taught only in English and all Spanish course such as Spanish Literature and Grammar were taught only in Spanish.

When a new student, newly arrived from Cuba at age 15, was having a tough time with his English..........Too bad, so sad........He had to sink or swim in the English only classes.

When those of us whose Spanish reading speed was not up to snuff had problems with our Spanish literature assignments..........Too bad, so sad........We had to sink or swim with our assigned Spanish books.

That is how two language are taught simultaneously. Sink or swim. Sink or swim with the ethnic language at home. Sink or swim with English outside the home.

Our 31 student graduating class produced 5 M.D.'s, several lawyers, one Judge, one Ph.D., one architect that designed a Miami skyscraper, my financial adviser, many successful businessmen and the class behind us produced the current Mayor of Miami.

In contrast, the current public school "bilingual education" ensures that these Spanish speaking kids will never master English and will be linguistically handicapped for the rest of their lives.

These "Englished-challenged" individuals are condemning themselves to mowing other people's lawns and cleaning other people's toilets.

In regards to businesses, any business that does not strive for English fluency is cutting its own throat in the market place.

If the employees cannot explain to the English-speaking Support Services what the F is wrong with the equipment that's on the blink, your company is dead in the water and the business is bleeding red ink.

Your boss needs to get a clue and realize that.

In regards to illegal immigration, I think the current situation is a disgrace and is giving all the legal immigrants a bad name.

My grandfather ended up as a political prisoner in Cuba in the early 1960's so my mother was denied exit from Cuba until after he died in 1980. The way the diplomatic mess worked at the time, Cubans had to leave Cuba to apply for U.S. visas in a third country but those countries would not give visas unless you had a U.S. visa first.

While I was in the Navy, I asked a Mexican Consulate in California if my mother and sister could get a Mexican visa. After three days, the reply came back that, if I bribed a certain lawyer, he could obtain an under-the-table Mexican visa.

I refused. If the Mexican visa was not 100% legal, I wanted no part of it.

So, if I was not willing to violate Mexican law for the sake of my own mother and sister, I have ZERO sympathy for Mexicans who want to violate U.S. law and those who make excuses for them.

In regards to Poland, my wife's maternal Polish ancestors were surnamed Glomb, Romanowski, Homiak, Pociecha and Soltys and then there was that fellow that changed his Polish surname to an English surname. (I never did understand such a way of thinking. "Eisenhower" and "Roosevelt" and "Van Buren" are just as American as "Wilson" and "Hoover" and "Carter".)

Maybe we are distant in-laws. :-)

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I am very impressed by your writing skills. I don't have the time to do the research that you do. I have a 2.5 y/o and a six week old, both boys, at home. So, when I am home it's run, run, run all day. What kind of doctor are you? You seem to have plenty of time to beat me over the head with facts but I wonder where you get the time.

I'm a radiologist. So, unless I am performing a procedure such as an ultrasound or biopsy or percutaneous drainage where I need to poke or probe a live body, I can "see" my patients at any time..... 6:00 AM, 11:00 AM, 8:00 PM, 2:00 AM, Sunday......I'll be leaving for the Hospital to do my Sunday reading in a little while. With the invention of broadband "tele-radiology" technology, massive digital images such as CT Scans, etc., can now be sent rapidly over the Internet. So, that saves me a lot of driving back and forth to the Hospital at 3:00 AM like I had to do in the technologically primitive "Dark Ages" just a few years ago. That has been a life saver.

Also, writing on FR is a stress reducer for me and a way to refresh the brain.

When my brain is about to get numb from reading the dozens and dozens of imaging studies that keep on coming and coming, I can take a 15 minute mental break on my office computer. I can put my mind in another place for those 15 minutes and recharge my mental battery in order to read the next 12 mammograms, 5 CT Scans, 15 plain films, etc. For a long post, I write my reply on a Microsoft Word document that I can e-mail to my home computer. A longer reply may have been composed in stages through out the entire day at each of my mental baterry re-charging breaks.

Some doctors throw surgical instruments, smoke, drink coffee, get ulcers, have a mid-life crisis with their Nurse or kick the dog to relieve their stress.

I write. It's healthier. :-)

In regards to research, that is actually the byproduct of decades of reading History as a hobby. Once I already know what historical point I want to make, a quick Google search of key words will get a link to an example of the point that I can post.

Good luck with your boys. It will get easier. :-)

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