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To: Polybius
2. pander, pan-dered. pan-der-ing: to act as a pander; esp.; to provide gratification for other’s desires < the audience is vulgar and stupid , you’ve got to pander to them – Herman Wouk >

So, unless Wouk's example is used out of context, then everyone has been using pandering in the wrong way for years. You better write all the newspapers, news shows, etc.

However, as I see the application of this term per our discussion the definition does apply. Hispanics desire to have things printed in spanish so they can understand them. Hence, "providing gratification for their desires". "Their desires" being the need for our government and increasingly, the American public, to try to communicate in spanish. "Not true", you say. Then why are all government forms now printed in spanish as well as English. And, if they are not "pandering (to provide gratification for other’s desires)" then why do it?

At the same time the GOP does not put out this ad in Polish, German, Gaelic, Swahili, Chinese, etc. Why not? Because ("to provide gratification for other’s desires" ) they clearly don't care about immigrants as much as you would like me to believe. They are only concerned about one group of immigrants. Hispanics. Why? Because they want their vote. How do they try to get it? Just like the democrats: "to provide gratification for other’s desires".

It would be different if they wanted the hispanic vote and at the same time attempted to get the hispanics to assimilate but instead the want to "facilitate" their remaining tied to the country of origin by not pushing learning English and assimilating. But again they would rather "provide gratification for other’s desires " then follow the Constitution and the established language of our country.

103 posted on 04/30/2005 3:57:11 AM PDT by raybbr
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To: raybbr
So, unless Wouk's example is used out of context, then everyone has been using pandering in the wrong way for years. You better write all the newspapers, news shows, etc.

In case you haven’t noticed, political discourse and the biased news media is brimming with distortion and demagoguery. If you want the proper meaning of a word, go to Webster's Dictionary and not to a political screed or a newspaper.

Republicans move ahead with plan to DESTROY Social Security

Hispanics desire to have things printed in spanish so they can understand them. Hence, "providing gratification for their desires".

That's a rather lame attempt at sophistry. You completely ignored the context of the Webster’s Dictionary definitions that specifically referred to the fact that the word “pandering” is properly used when those desires are vulgar and related to vices and weakness in character.

According to your sophistry, we would be “pandering” to your mother if we asked her if she wanted her coffee black, with cream or with or without sugar.

Your mother desired to have have her coffee black with two lumps of sugar. Hence, "providing gratification for her desires". Hence, been polite to your mother is the moral equivalent of "pandering" to your mother.

Gee, isn't sophistry fun. :-)

In regards to “what they want”, it would depend on the generation. Grandpa, who came to the U.S. as an adult might find the Spanish version easier to read. Dad, who came to the U.S. as a 12 year old might not care as he can read both English and Spanish equally fast. Junior, who was born in the U.S. and struggles with his Spanish, would prefer the English version .

At the same time the GOP does not put out this ad in Polish, German, Gaelic, Swahili, Chinese, etc. Why not?

Why not Polish or German or Gaelic or Swahili?

It’s called the Willy Sutton Rule. Willy Sutton, the bank robber, was asked why he robbed banks. He replied, ''Because that's where the money is.''

Hardly anybody in America still speaks those languages in the year 2005.

You might as well be writing in Latin.

Why not Gaelic anymore? Because Gaelic is today a nearly dead language which only a tiny fraction of even the Irish in Ireland itself can still speak.

Why not Polish? Because the first generation Polish American immigrants are long since dead. My mother-in-law’s family is of 100% Polish American bloodline and the only Polish words my third generation mother-in-law understands are “Kielbasa” and “Pierogi”.

Why not Danish? Because the first generation Danish American immigrants are long since dead. My father-in-law’s family is of 100% Danish American bloodline and the only Danish words my third generation father-in-law understands are “Bestefar” (Grandfather) , “Bestemor” (Grandmother) and “aebleskiver”.

Why not German? Same reason. Because the first generation German American immigrants are long since dead. Besides the Amish in Pennsylvania, how many Americans of German descent do you know that can still string together two sentences in German.

Swahili? Have you ever met a single African American who can speak an African language?

What about the Yiddish that was so common in New York in the early 1900’s? That language also died with the second generation Eastern European Jewish immigrants.

Immigration patterns change and with it change the languages that are most common with first generation immigrants.

In 1904, the first generation immigrants spoke Polish, German, Italian, Norwegian, Danish, Yiddish……..

In 2005, the first generation immigrants speak Spanish, Chinese, Arabic……..

If you are a Republican Congressional candidate in a district with a larger number of potential voters who read Arabic with much greater ease, you would hand out Arabic versions of your campaign platform if you have any interest in getting your message across:

George Ajjan …………..a Republican who hopes to upset Rep. Bill Pascrell Jr., D-Paterson……………Ajjan, whose grandparents emigrated from Syria to Paterson between 1910 and 1920, hands out campaign literature in both Spanish and ARABIC……………

If you are a Republican Congressional candidate in a district with a larger number of potential voters who read Chinese with much greater ease, you would hand out Chinese versions of your campaign platform if you have any interest in getting your message across:

............the California Chinese American Republican Association, said campaign literature has already been printed in Chinese. Moreover, an Asian American coalition is planning to travel “statewide to do outreach” and talk to the press in order to get “our story out,” he said. “This is an incredible opportunity because the Asian vote is wide open.”

It would be different if they wanted the hispanic vote and at the same time attempted to get the hispanics to assimilate but instead the want to "facilitate" their remaining tied to the country of origin by not pushing learning English and assimilating.

Yeah , right.

The bottom line is that, throughout American History, American immigrants have always followed the same pattern:

The first generation struggles with English.

The second generation is at equal ease with English and their ethnic language.

The third generation struggles with their ethnic language and most often totally loses it.

I see it in my medical practice whenever I speak with a Mexican family. Grandma talks to me in Spanish. Mom bounces back and forth between Spanish and English and the kids talk to me in English.

I have no idea what your ethnic background is but, as I noted before, unless your family has been hiding for 200 in the deep woods of the Appalachian Mountains it would be almost impossible for you not to have a non-English speaking immigrant ancestor.

I can assure that, when that ancestor first set foot on American soil, his English was not very refined and, if a political party did not find it beneath them to try to communicate with him, they made an effort to communicate with him in his own language.

That is American History.


104 posted on 04/30/2005 9:50:12 AM PDT by Polybius
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