Russia Church Urges Resolve With Catholics

AP via Yahoo!News ^ | Mon, Apr 25, 2005

[lizol]

Russia Church Urges Resolve With Catholics

MOSCOW - The head of the Russian Orthodox Church said Monday a visit by Pope Benedict XVI to Russia would be possible only after the two churches resolve their longtime differences.

"There cannot be a visit for the sake of a visit. There cannot be a meeting purely for television cameras," the Interfax new agency quoted Patriarch Alexy II as saying.

Relations between the world's two largest Christian communities have been tense amid Russian allegations of Catholic proselytizing. The tensions prevented the late John Paul II from visiting Russia — a trip he had dreamed of making as part of his efforts to reconcile the two churches.

Commenting Monday on Benedict's pledge to develop dialogue with other religions, Alexy said: "We don't know if that's going to affect (relations) with the Russian Orthodox Church. The future will show."

Alexy said the problems that the Russian church wanted addressed remained unchanged: alleged eastward Catholic expansion and alleged discrimination against Orthodox Christians in western Ukraine.

The centuries-old divisions grew after the collapse of the Soviet Union, as Roman Catholics tried to reassert their presence even as the Russian church was working to restore the clout it had lost under Communist rule.

Some observers said Benedict may lack the zeal John Paul had for closer ties.

In this photo made available by the Vatican daily L'Osservatore Romano, Pope Benedict XVI, center, greets Metropolitan of Smolensk and Kaliningrad Kirill, left, a senior representative of the Russian Orthodox Church, during a meeting in the Sala Clementina at the Vatican, Monday, April 25, 2005. Benedict told ecumenical leaders on Monday that he fully supported the need to work toward uniting Christians divided by schism.

[GSlob]

Unless one is peddling an inferior product, one should not worry too much about losing customers, right?

[conservlib]

Relations between the world's two largest Christian communities have been tense amid Russian allegations of Catholic proselytizing.

You would not know if Orthodox Christians even do exist in the USA, or count as minority community. Right now, for example, their Easter is next Sunday, and our media did not even mention it with one single line. On the other hand, the Jewish passover (around the same time) is big news on the front page of every newspaper in the country; including small towns that have less than dozen Jewish families. The Orthodox have a right to demand respect from the rest of the Christian communities. Can you imagine if on my birthday I expect all colleagues to celebrate and go nuts, but on your birthday, I make sure no one even mention it is your BD today, never mind going nuts in celebration.

[conservlib]

Unless one is peddling an inferior product, one should not worry too much about losing customers, right?

Wrong, my friend. The poor nations can get flooded with dollars to capture Orthodox or Catholic Christians to Evangelical type! Now tell me what in the HELL that gains the Evangelicals. If you want to donate money to the poor, just give them the damn money without telling them that hating the Virgin Mary is a condition for getting food. It is border line unchristian to do such things. You want to convert people to Christ? Knock yourself out converting the Buddhists, the godless, the Hindus, the Muslims! Steeling market share from among different Christian denomination is a dirty trick in my book.

[rmichaelj]

Yes because we all know how the Catholic Church controls the media in the U.S. (Sarcasm Tag)

[conservlib]

Yes because we all know how the Catholic Church controls the media in the U.S. (Sarcasm Tag)

<PBS, and you know it! It is minorities in America that demands to be recognized will be recognized. However, as a minority you will have to be loud, and persisting to get the majority to give you due respect. Jewish, Muslim, Black minorities demand such recognition and get it, Orthodox are not organized, or even care. It is more like an assured person going on with his daily life, and not worried about you wishing him happy BD on his BD. He will celebrate it with his friends, and family at home, thank you!

[netmilsmom]

There is a big Orthodox community here in Detroit. When you celebrate Holidays, it is always mentioned on our news.

Personally, I would like it if the Roman Catholics celebrated when you do. Sure would make Christmas shopping easier for me! I love after Christmas sales.

[conservlib]

Newspaper, and TV people are a bunch of lazies. If you don't FEED them the news, they will not go to find it. I will assure that 90% of the news, and specials in our media coverage are pushed by some people for their own agenda. If the Orthodox are willing to call the newspaper and create lots of noise to get on the front page, they will get there. Lazy ass journalists will not go on their own to report on a minority group, the minority group have to demanded it, and be real loud about it.

[lizol]

But this thread is about Orthodox - Catholic relations.
And you started something about Evangelicals.

I hope you don't want to say, that Catholics try to convert Orthodox in Russia with money.

[netmilsmom]

You may be right, unless it's a slow news day!

Lazy may be the right word, for sure.

[conservlib]

Yes they do too. Catholics are not above steeling market share. I have to admit, I am a Catholic, but I have witnessed with my own eyes their practice of STEALING converts. Other wise why in the hell do you care to proselyte to an already Christian person. He is already on your team, just go and pick on some one who IS NOT CHRISTIAN AT ALL, like Muslims, Jews, Godless, Buddhists, Hindus,...

[lizol]

I have witnessed with my own eyes their practice of STEALING converts

Which was...? Could you describe the situation?

[The_Reader_David]

Sure, that's why Walmart tends to drive out mom-and-pop operations selling higher quality goods.

The Latin church has very deep pockets in comparison to the Russian Orthodox Church which is just emerging from the Bolshevik Yoke, so the analogy is fair at the level you pitched it, though your commoditizing of the differences between Latin and Orthodox soteriology, ecclesiology, doctrine, liturgics and praxis, and between the phronema of the two communions, should offend all on both sides.

[conservlib]

Unless you are dumb, or acting dumb; I already mentioned In my previous posts the practice of offering food to needy families in poor countries with the condition of attending their service, and converting to whatever form of Christianity that you are selling. Catholics, Evangelicals, all do the same thing. One good example in poor nations they have poor education system EXCEPT for the Catholic schools. Now if you are a Catholic your children will go for free or practically free. If you are not, your children will be doomed. Does that help you understand the picture.

[conservlib]

I continue to feel that Christians who have some money to donate to poor Christians they should SIMPLY GIVE THEM THE MONEY WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED!!!

If REAL Christians want to convert NON-CHRISTIANS to the Lord, let them "bribe" non Christians as a dirty trick to gain converts.

[lizol]

Unless you are dumb, or acting dumb

This is not the level of discussion I'm going to be involved in.

Bye.

[bowzer313]

At Fatima, the Holy Mother prophesied the evils that would be inflicted on the world by the "Errors of Russia", horrific evils that would never end until the "Conversion of Russia" (that is, Russia's conversion to Catholicism) or Armageddon. The Blessed Virgin gave no guarantee that this conversion would occur. She said that it could only be brought about by the consistent prayers of the Catholic faithful, via the Holy Rosary.

It seems that subsequent Russian history (Bolshevism, Leninism, Stalinism, and now its Russian Mafia Gangsterism, all of which has advanced religious persecution and nuclear proliferation) would only corroborate what the Holy Mother prophesied. Only Armageddon awaits...

[ZULU]

Catholics, Evangelicals and Orthodox bickering.

HEAR THAT????

Its the sound of laughter in Tehran and Mecca!!!

[lizol]

"If my requests are granted, Russia will be converted and there will be peace. If My requests are not granted, Russia will spread her errors throughout the world raising up wars and persecutions against the Church, the good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. (...) the whole world will be enslaved by the atheistic tyrants of Russia".

This is a quote from Fatima prophecy.

Revelations of Our Lady occured in Fatima in 1917 (May-October). And my interpretation is, that She was saying about Soviet Russia, which was supposed to be contverted back to Christanity from its "errors". Not about converting from Orthodoxy to Catholicism.

And here you have a quote from an official Catholic stance about this issue - THE MESSAGE OF FATIMA (CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH)

Fatima is undoubtedly the most prophetic of modern apparitions. The first and second parts of the “secret”—which are here published in sequence so as to complete the documentation—refer especially to the frightening vision of hell, devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the Second World War, and finally the prediction of the immense damage that Russia would do to humanity by abandoning the Christian faith and embracing Communist totalitarianism.

[bowzer313]

"Revelations of Our Lady occured in Fatima in 1917 (May-October). And my interpretation is, that She was saying about Soviet Russia, which was supposed to be contverted back to Christanity from its "errors". Not about converting from Orthodoxy to Catholicism."

Au Contraire..."Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus" (outside of the Church there is no salvation) means conversion to Roman Catholicism and nothing less. Given what we continue to see happening in Russia today, and the world generally, how can you make any claim that Our Lady's requests have ever been granted?

Armageddon awaits...