Posted on 04/25/2005 7:59:46 AM PDT by NotchJohnson
>>I have several different bibles, so my theology is not denominational, and I compare verses in different bibles when I find contradictions.
You may indeed have your own theology, but you are missing one key item..
The Scripture you use was given by an organized religion, Scripture itself is organized by Canon, Chapter, and Verse..
One key to remember is that scripture wasn't always broken down by verse.
So while you may not see any organization in your peronsalized theology, it's still dependent on being organized outside of your efforts. Or did you simply come across some New Testament books, place them in the order you wanted, and figured out the canon of the NT?
As I said, everybody's [Christian] religion is organized -- it's inescapable...
"So go consult instead. Ask the Godless atheist how to live out the bible. Learn from him, he rejects the bible, but he knows how you should treat other Christians. Have at it!"
I don't consult Atheists, but I will listen to them with an uncritical ear, so long as the spirit of their commentary is not vicious. I don't see that he rejects the bible, based on his statement that Christ was enlightened and that the bible lays out how we are to treat other people. He is actually RIGHT about that, and most people here agree. But instead of discussing what we have in common and accepting the content of what he is saying, this thread has turned into a doggypile on the "out" guy.
I am encouraged that he is interested enough to delve into scripture, and that the content of his initial interest was that of unifying all Christians under the banner of charitable work. His message better exemplifies Jesus than those who count as non-Christians and heretics those whose demonination has a different cultural character.
It's not like he is insulting Jesus. On the contrary, he respects Jesus and I respect him for having enough class to not go off on everybody here based on the way he has been treated. I think he is a Christian in his heart and we should embrace what is Christian about him, rather than trying to kick him out of the circle. Is it better that he be here and express his opinion or on an Atheist site reinforcing anti-Christian views?
Are you selective about which charities you give to, or do you look up "charities" in the yellow pages and give to every one of them?
There's nothing wrong with deciding that you will give to some but not to others, especially when your decisions are guided by the leading of the Holy Spirit.
"Did I misread the article? It sounded like people (the 3 Muslims and others) were just helping to serve the meal - not doing any preaching."
Perhaps their presence was by "divine appointment."
My pastor talked about this a few weeks ago. He phoned the pastor at the "church" in question, but hasn't mentioned whether he ever heard back from them.
Nice use of "malapropism," btw :-).
You seem very confused. I am not representing Christ to this person. He has all the info. He rejects Christ. And he knows the bible. He rejects it.
And I have no malice against him. Or other atheists. They are lost souls.
Which doesn't mean I am going to take advice from them on Christian matters. Or even listen to them on such matters. Much less do I care about their quoting scripture to me and interpreting it, since they reject it as a lie.
I am not trying to convert them. I have nothing further to say about this person. Go in peace.
the others 'Non-Christian' or 'Not Really Christians' and pack them in
You and I have a very different view of who Jesus was. There are three possibilities only.
One, he is a liar and evil.
Or Two, he is totally insane.
Or Three, he is exactly who he says he is. The very son of God. With all the authority to speak for God and forgive our sins and reconcile us to God.
He cannot be someone to respect unless he is number three. To think otherwise is madness.
I think he is a Christian in his heart and we should embrace what is Christian about him, rather than trying to kick him out of the circle.
You are delusional about him. Ask him if he is Christian instead of making him into what you would LIKE HIM TO BE.
Is it better that he be here and express his opinion or on an Atheist site reinforcing anti-Christian views?
IT is better if he believes what he wants and doesn't try to stick his nose in where he has no credibility.
It's hard to convert a man when you are kicking him in the butt.
Very thoughtful post. Thank you.
How will that happen? What religion does that belief come from?
Interesting comment from a an old mountain man who claimed all Protestants and Catholics weren't Christians. I guess he was trying to convert those people when he kicked 'em in the butt with that slander.
"Very good points. Having come to my atheism through Christianity, I often found that my questions back then were often (not always) answered with a rebuke rather than an answer."
From what you say here, it was for the same reason I rejected Christianity for most of my life. I think people need to take this to heart, in order to bring thinking people to Christ.
"It's not that the questions were such terrible ones, either, but merely questions about doctrine asked of the minister of my home church regarding such topics as predestination, etc. When I had such a question, instead of directing me to the answers from the New Testament, I usually got a "Why do you worry about such things," answer."
Ah! When I ask questions about the violent passages in the Old Testament, and question whether they were written because God spoke it, or because someone wanted to justify killing, they say I am a person posing as a Christian trying to cause division. I still don't have my answers, hence "followerofChrist," i.e. the NEW Testament, which I do understand and accept. I learned that if they haven't thought about and formulated an answer, that you are either an Atheist posing as a Christian, under demonic influence or (the free republic answer) a "followerofmohammed." The latter is also the answer I get to questions about whether all Muslims' life goal is to kill Christians and Jews.
"So, I set out to answer the questions for myself, through study. Over a period of years, that study led me to atheism, but left me with a deep respect for the beliefs of others, regardless of their faith."
I literally did the same thing you did with the study, and despite what my intellect told me and the questions that still remain, I did become a Christian. I can't explain this logically. Divine appointment and answer to a very, very specific prayer at a very difficult time and a whole bunch of "coincidences" took place. My faith took the hate from my heart, which was quite the miracle at the time.
It's weird that I came from Atheism to Christianity and your experience was the opposite. I too have studied many religions, and I find them fascinating. For a couple years, before I came to Christ, I immersed myself into Pagan studies and even attended a couple of their gatherings. What struck me is the differences between European Pagan faiths, and even within them. I also learned the Pagan roots of many Christian rites, rituals and holidays. One thing that irritated me, and still does, is that people of other faiths tend to make wild claims (they're SACRIFICING babies in that Pagan religion!) about other religions.
Some would say that because I am a Christian, I should not view other religions with such tolerance, but am I supposed to ignore what I learned about those faiths and join in on the bashing? I don't believe in building a church based on hatred, lies, insults and misconceptions. My faith is strong enough that I don't have to do this. I am fully confident Jesus Christ that I don't have to demonize anyone else.
"Since Christianity is the dominant religion in America, I have continued my study of it, in its many variations. It has been fascinating, and remains fascinating."
What is your opinion of the Coptics, the Gnostics, and the lost sea scrolls, in relation to the assertion that the bible has never been tampered with or edited by man? My view is that these early Christians integrated their culture into the new Christ religion, as we do here in the west with our Germanized version of Christianity. Their cultural expression of their religion differed greatly from the Gnostics, hence the Gnostic gospels were expunged from the story of Christ. In my opinion, it was just another denominational and cultural fight, in efforts to kill Paganism. Oddly enough, western Paganism is plainly evident in Christian holidays and all over the Catholic and Orthodox churches. It is my beleif that whatever is suppressed will indeed see the light of day, a concept which has manifested itself in the Da Vinci Code and in the Kabbalah, in the form of wild conspiracy theories and conjecture about what the early Christians and Jews actually believed. People with questions have not gotten the answers from Christians, which has empowered those who hate Christians. Now we have people who think Jesus and Mary Magdalene (who was never a whore, by he way) were married and had a daughter, evidenced by some weird "Priory of Scion" nonsense and Da Vinci's Last Supper! And all Christians had to do was to lighten up and answer a few questions.
Go figure.
for example:
http://answering-islam.org./Quran/index.html
and
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Versions/versioninfo.html
and
http://mb-soft.com/believe/txo/koran.htm
jw
"Perhaps their presence was by "divine appointment." "
And perhaps their presence was by somethng other than the divine.
Do you believe in God?
If so, do you also believe in Satan?
I not, why not?
bump
One of the reasons Calvinism is so hard-core about predestination to hell and heaven is because it tries to address this paradox.
Barry Goldwater was my hero. I campaigned for him for President.
Well, sometimes they do get excited when they don't believe the whole thing, just the parts they want to believe.
Well, that is not entirely true. We do not have to answer for Adam's sin, just our own (which is enough, of course, for all of us). That's why infants don't need to be baptized - they belong to Christ already.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.