***....."Administrators have said to me privately that they would rather be academically failing than be a dangerous school." ...*** Source
Posted on 04/23/2005 2:43:55 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
ST. PETERSBURG - What parent hasn't tried this trick on stubborn children: Tell them it's time to go, pretend you're leaving and hope they follow.
Two educators tried the tactic last month in the case of a 5-year-old girl at Fairmount Park Elementary. Twice it failed.
The pair used a range of other strategies in an hourlong ordeal, about 30 minutes of which were caught on a videotape released this week by a lawyer for the girl's mother. Some of their "interventions" appeared to work, others did not.
Although administrators and many teachers are trained in dealing with misbehaving children, educators say they have no sure formula for success, especially in such an extreme case.
At Fairmount Park on March 14, the girl swung several times at assistant principal Nicole Dibenedetto and teacher Patti Tsaousis. She created a mess wherever she went and generally refused to cooperate. She eventually was handcuffed by St. Petersburg police, who were called to the school.
"She's a little girl who wants to be in control," Carol Thomas, an assistant superintendent in charge of Pinellas elementary schools, said while viewing the video this week. "It was very deliberate behavior.
Lynette Fields, a professor at the University of South Florida's College of Education, called it "a very trying situation in the real world."
Thomas said Dibenedetto and Tsaousis handled the case admirably, setting limits for the girl but also giving her options and praising the positive decisions she made amid the bad ones. Thomas also offered suggestions for what else might have been tried.
Instead of counting to five out loud, as Dibenedetto did to coax the girl to act, Thomas said she might have counted in her head to give the girl more leeway.
Another alternative: ignoring the child.
But Thomas said that strategy is risky because it requires an unbending commitment. If you give up on it to prevent a child from getting hurt, it results in "intermittent reinforcement," Thomas said, which only strengthens bad behavior.
Fields said it appeared Dibenedetto and Tsaousis took a page from the philosophy espoused in the book, Parenting with Love and Logic, which gave rise to the Love and Logic Institute.
The Love and Logic philosophy discourages the "drill sergeant" and "helicopter" styles of parenting. The first one commands and directs children, the latter hovers and rescues them from mistakes.
The Love and Logic style encourages children to talk about their feelings, make their own decisions and complete required tasks within loose "time frames."
It is a philosophy that surely grates on those who said during the robust public discussion following the videotape's release that the girl was in need of corporal punishment.
In letters to the St. Petersburg Times, on Internet postings and in talk radio debates, many expressed outrage Friday that the educators at Fairmount Park seemed hamstrung by concerns about touching the girl or being too stern.
Among the dynamics at work that day: two school staffers were forced to focus exclusively on the girl during dismissal, one of the busiest and most stressful times of the day; the girl's behavior had prompted the school to call city police a few days earlier, and the mother had complained.
District officials said that in the future Pinellas schools police should be notified because they are accustomed to dealing with students.
Florida law still allows corporal punishment but leaves the decision to school districts. Many districts abandoned the practice years ago because of liability concerns, Fields said. Pinellas is one of them.
Even the law that allows corporal punishment is fraught with caution. An educator may administer it only with another adult present. That adult must be told - in the presence of the student - of the reason for the punishment. Parents can request a written explanation.
Pinellas educators are told they may use "reasonable force" to protect themselves, a student or anyone else from harm. But, in practice, that translates to a simpler rule of thumb: no touching at all.
"That's a good rule for anyone to follow when dealing with somebody else's children," Fields said.
Pinellas elementary schools reported 406 disciplinary referrals for batteries on adults last school year, up from 272 the year before. Many are repeat offenses from a smaller group of children who chronically misbehave.
"Some schools call them "frequent fliers,' " said Bob Poth, principal of Douglas L. Jamerson Jr. Elementary.
"The bottom line is that if a child is misbehaving, learning is not taking place," Poth said. "We only have 180 days with the kids. We can't afford to have them fooling around."
Times staff writer Donna Winchester contributed to this report.
This is just stupid.
That's for sure.
"Yep, greedy lawyers, dishonorable judges, clueless juries, and worthless plaintiffs."
This is exactly the problem..People are too intimidated to practice any kind of civility or action to protect children or anyone for fear of being sued to kingdom come. To think that the police have to be involved to safely resolve an issue like this is hair raising but any rational person can understand the dilemma these teachers found themselves in. In my day, that kid would have been spanked at school and, again, at home for such defiant behavior. If these lawyers are not reigned in, we are going to go back to a state of uncivilization which we cannot comprehend.
So true. It's strange what good behavior a few swatts bring. Or a week of NO and I mean NO TV. I've always been a book worm, so NO TV didn't bother me one bit. When the boys were small 8 pm was bed time, as they got a little older it was 9 pm, then 10 pm, all strictly enforced. I needed my 'child' free time. After age 6 or 7 the swatts got rarer and rarer. The key is to get them under control before age 3 or 4.
***....."Administrators have said to me privately that they would rather be academically failing than be a dangerous school." ...*** Source
Bump!
I was a public school teacher for four years once in my misguided mid twenties. I taught middle school in Hillsborough County, Florida in Tampa, not far from this school. My teaching career was so abbreviated due wholly in part to situations like this.
I had about 2 dozen problem kids in middle school. Disruptive, disrespectful, thug mentality. Called one of their moms one day after school after a particulary harrowing week with her son and she told me: "When he's at home, he's my problem. When he's at school, he's yours."
I turned in my resignation 15 minutes after hanging up the phone.
My guess is politics.
1. The mother created the mess.
2. This was a lawsuit just waiting to happen, by calling in an outside agency, the School District is spreading the liability, so they wont be the only ones on the hook when the lawyers come to feast.
Ditto. Thanks for posting this article.
So, let's deconstruct: video, little black child, girl, cuffed by white cops. Purpose? Oh, nah, can't be. The folks who run media outlets, they wouldn't want to egg on the races against each other...
Nah. (*** sounds of tinfoil hat being tightened down extra hard on a sat morning ..****).
I know exactly what you went through!
Only a mental defective would handcuff a five year old. That one is REAL simple.
I think the school got the video BECAUSE they knew that the mother was threatening to sue. Now that the video is out, does the attorney think that the public is on his side? That a jury will say that this child was really mistreated?
They put the plastic ties on her and after they put her in the patrol car they had to tie her feet too.
She was a danger to herself and to others.
I wouldn't have faulted them if they'd put her in a straight jacket.
Don't forget to add Pinellas. Most of the networks say Florida. Guess they don't want to remind folks of you know who.
We have no idea what the thoughts of the police or school officials are either. Years ago, in San Antonio, Hispanics yelled racism when a Mexican was killed by a white/Anglo police officer. Then the public found out that the police officer had a Mexican wife.
I've dealt with this, too. As a WASP, I married a Hispanic Army Sergeant who was raised in the barrios of LA. Our grandchildren range from Blacks to blonds. Our "racists" jokes are about who needs sunscreen.
I noticed "Pinellas," too. I'll be the child still got her lunch served.
How about just shoving the child out the front door and locking it so she can't get back in?
they said on the news last night that the mother was called but she said she could not or would not (i don't remember which) come and get her.
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