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Georgia responsible for Soviet genocide, claims Russian ambassador to Ukraine
UPI ^ | Apr. 21, 2005

Posted on 04/22/2005 10:03:43 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

According to former Russian Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin, now Russian ambassador to Ukraine, Georgia is more to blame for the Soviet genocide against Ukrainians than Russia. Chernomyrdin told journalists, "If we speak about terror in the times of the U.S.S.R., as a result of that, the number of Russians killed was far greater than that of Ukrainians. We still cannot answer to our people for that. If anyone is to receive claims, address them to Georgia, the 'father of nations' Joseph Stalin was from that country." During the U.S.S.R.'s 1932-1933 collectivization drive, an estimated 5 million to 7 million Ukrainians in the "bread basket" of the U.S.S.R. perished during a famine deliberately instituted by Stalin.

(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: chernomyrdin; genocide; georgia; realbadexcuse; russia; sovietunion; ukraine
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To: Tailgunner Joe
You are no Christian and you even lead others to join into your sins.

So you're now my confessor too? Oh that's rich. Yup, I'm the devil, Lucifer, yup, I'm here to steal your soul. Go run and hide.

You are racist against all these which you would grind under Russia's bootheel. You celebrate their enslavement to communism under Stalin!

As usual you are a slanderer. Go find where I've said I wanted them ground under anyone's heel. I'll be waiting along with your proof that I defended Stalin. Any more lies you'd like to tell? You're on a real roll today. Keep it coming. Maybe I was the second gunman on the grassy knoll too?

61 posted on 04/23/2005 1:04:35 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: Kozak
Try rereading my post, you obviously didn't comprehend it the first time.

No he had some help. Plenty of Russians helped him...oh and plenty of Jews too (who happened to set up the Gulags under Lenin) and then there were plenty of Ukrainians, Georgians, some Poles and lots of American and British millionares. Oh and did we mention the Latvian Rifles? Body guards to the Soviet Leadership?

62 posted on 04/23/2005 1:05:26 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: Tailgunner Joe


63 posted on 04/23/2005 1:13:07 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Tailgunner Joe --

For some reason you have decided to attack jb6 with an unending stream of ridiculous false accusations, that he loves Stalin and communism and so on.

So you have turned the discussion into a tirade of insult, that has no relation to truth. Maybe you have some big problems in your life so you decide to take it out on him, maybe you forgot your medication, or maybe you just in a blind senseless rage after he provoked you somehow. I have no idea.

Every reader can see the dishonesty in what you are saying, making you lose credibility. Your own conscience must bother you about the dishonesty of your statements as well.

For example, you just said that jb6 blames Georgians and Poles and Ukranians -- that he is "racist" against all of them. But everyone reading the discussion above, sees clearly that jb6 only acknowledged the historical fact that these countries each had *some* communists who helped Stalin. He did not express collective guilt or animus against these countries. The valid point is that Communism is an ideology, not unique to a particular nationality or ethnicity, and that many people's and nationality share in the blame for Stalin's attrocities. Blame the communists, and focus your energy against the demonic ideology of communism, instead of a *nationality*. It is totally stupid to demonize an entire people for the actions and beliefs of a communist minority that victimized the great majority.

Don't lie and say jb6 loves Stalin, or that he "celebrates communism" -- no one believes you, no matter how many angry insults and lies you throw around. You want to tear him down so much, it just makes you look unhinged and ridiculous. It is even more insane and absurd because he is anti-communist, just like you.

I admire your anti-communism.
I want you to be a better anti-communist.
You could be so much more effective, what a waste.


64 posted on 04/23/2005 1:38:13 AM PDT by Mount Athos
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To: Tailgunner Joe
He is such an antiCommunist that he celebrates Stalin and defends him. Yeah, right.

Joe, you're delusional. Nobody I have seen on this board defends the insane Stalin. We all hate the lying and murderous piece of scum. However, you label all Russians and anything associated with the country as communist. That is total nonsense, because nobody hates communism more than Russians. You will find more communists in American universities today than in all the former Soviet Union. You need to get this through your head, Communism is not a statue or a country.
65 posted on 04/23/2005 4:18:07 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: Tailgunner Joe; jb6; Mount Athos
Actually you Stavka2, RussianConservative and GarySpFc all have identical ping lists. That's because you are all the same person.

JB6 and I are not the same person. I have furnished you my identity, proved I am former Special Forces, and even provided you with a couple of names of the leaders in a couple of the organizations you list on your profile page to phone and confirm not only my identity, but also my character. Now you accuse us of not being Christians, and so I am going to provide you with something else to prove you are dead wrong. Go to my website at www.errantskeptics.org, and you will clearly see this is a Christian site. I think you also should know I have contributed updates to two major Bible translations. Now, are you still going to call say I am not a Christian?
66 posted on 04/23/2005 4:33:19 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: Grzegorz 246

Wouldn't It be better If that monument showed American, British and Russian soldiers ?===

Good idea.


67 posted on 04/23/2005 5:05:40 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: Kozak

No Russians? None? Not out of that 100 million that made up the majority of the Soviet Army, NKVD, MGB, KGB, Communist Party? All blameless? All helpless?===

Who says that there wasn't any russians. People say that there wasn't ONLY russians as somneone here pretend to say.

Soviet Union was the name of state. Not Russia! Even this fact is very eloquent if one supposed to think.
Soviet Union wasn't russian state it was SOVIET means commie international state.


68 posted on 04/23/2005 5:09:13 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: GarySpFc; Tailgunner Joe

However, you label all Russians and anything associated with the country as communist. That is total nonsense, because nobody hates communism more than Russians. ==

Exactly.

Joe I want to add. You research Civil war of 1918-22. This war proves that RUSSIANS fought with commies the FIRST ever battles when no one in the world even knew the all danger of commies.
By this war I hope russians proved that they are anti-commies.


69 posted on 04/23/2005 5:12:38 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan
Yes, I know. I should be a Tsar of Russia.
70 posted on 04/23/2005 5:31:22 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: GarySpFc
Nobody I have seen on this board defends the insane Stalin

But few of you here really like these ideas with Stalin monuments, because this is not ONE monuments how some people here trying to suggest but at least three, including two ONLY with Stalin.
71 posted on 04/23/2005 10:20:28 AM PDT by Lukasz
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To: RusIvan
By this war I hope russians proved that they are anti-commies.

Yes, they were many anti-commie Russians but they lost because they were more pro-commie Russians. Without of the support of big part of Russian society Reds would never won. And support of the commies from other countries was meaningless because those countries were politically and by population meaningless.

For example Polish commies before WWII were anonymous nobodies even in Poland then how they could have influence for Russia, this is poor propaganda for naïve people.
72 posted on 04/23/2005 10:31:49 AM PDT by Lukasz
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To: Lukasz
But few of you here really like these ideas with Stalin monuments, because this is not ONE monuments how some people here trying to suggest but at least three, including two ONLY with Stalin.

I hate to call someone a liar, but the tag fits in your case. We do not like or even approve of any statue of Stalin. He was a mass murderer, and I suspect he is burning in hell today. However, we do understand why some people in Russia may appreciate that he lead them through tough times. BTW, the last I heard all three statues were canceled. I know the one in Volgograd was canceled.
73 posted on 04/23/2005 11:07:31 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: Destro

That is precisely what you always do just to deflect blame away from Russians.


74 posted on 04/23/2005 12:05:02 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe
I blame the Ukranians and non-Russian ethnics - non-Russian ethnics dominated the Communist party because many ethnic communities saw it as a way to overthrow the Czar.

It would be as if the minorities in America joined up with some non-minority Americans and took over the USA-which was the Communist plot (Black Panthers, etc).

75 posted on 04/23/2005 12:12:01 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: GarySpFc

You are either jb6, or you are simply so easily led by his lies that you have made precisely the same false accusations against me that he has. In your attempts to smear anyone who does not worship at the altar of Imperial Russia, you have accused me of supporting Chechens, Islam, Soros, etc. That proves you are no Christian at all, but just a lowly liar. If you want to prove you are a Christian, then you should repent! Retract your lies against me and admit you had no basis for the smears which you have used to defame me, and then I will admit that maybe you are a Christian. On the other hand, if you have no remorse, and are not sorry at all for your lies, then you will not be forgiven!


76 posted on 04/23/2005 12:12:29 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Destro

Wel I am glad you finally admitted that you blame it all on ethnic minorities.


77 posted on 04/23/2005 12:13:24 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Lukasz

"Yes, they were many anti-commie Russians but they lost because they were more pro-commie Russians. Without of the support of big part of Russian society Reds would never won. And support of the commies from other countries was meaningless because those countries were politically and by population meaningless."

Lukasz,
You don't know Russian history - obviously. Let's get a few things straight:
1.) The revolution in February 1917 (Kerensky, and others) was not communist based. The Kerensky government was overthrown in the October coup by the better organized "Bolsheviks" (who ironically were less in number than the "Menshiveks.")
Kerensky made horrible mistakes and ignored warnings about the dangers of Lenin's movement. By the time he realized his errors, it was too late.
2.) The Reds were united and well run, however, they did not enjoy widespread support from the peasant classes. The Whites were not united and unfortunately the egos of their leadership didn't allow for proper coordination of their activities. The Whites, when organized properly, cleaned the clocks of the Reds.
3.) Lenin and his gang of thugs knew they were not supported by the masses - this explains their ruthlessness against the very people they claimed to represent. They murdered millions to ensure that the peasants (and others) were cowed enough not to resist any further.
4.) Once "safely" in power, the Reds controlled the means of power - the armies, the police, communications, transport, etc. Anyone who stepped out of line was eliminated.

Everybody suffered during the Soviet times - Russians, Belarusians, Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians, ethnic Poles, ethnic Germans, Georgians, Mengrillians, Abxazhians, Chechens, Ingush, Dagestantsy, Mari, Nantsy, Chukchi, Armenians, Azeris, Turmen, Uzbeks, Tadjiks, Kyrgyz, Kalmiks, Jews, etc., etc., etc. AND members of the aforementioned ethnic groups also participated in the oppression of the "Soviet" people. To heap blame on any ethnic group is stupid - heap it on the murderous system of Marxism/Leninism.


78 posted on 04/23/2005 12:19:34 PM PDT by Romanov
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Are you reading deficient? Where is there an absolute in my statement like "all".
79 posted on 04/23/2005 12:19:55 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Billthedrill
Yeah...the Bulldogs were kinda hard on the Crimson Tide, too...

as Stuckey's is hard on the tummy. But, oh, the ladies with their accents...

80 posted on 04/23/2005 12:20:33 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (In Honor of Terri Schiavo. http://209.245.58.70/frosty65/ Let it load and have the sound on.)
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