Posted on 04/19/2005 10:39:05 AM PDT by churchillbuff
In 2003, after Episocpalian gay bishop Robinson was elected, a group of concerned Episcopalians and Anglicans met in emergency session, in Texas, to strategize how to respond -- through formally breaking away or other strategies.
They received this letter from Rome:
October 9, 2003
From Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
The Vatican, on behalf of Pope John Paul II
I hasten to assure you of my heartfelt prayers for all those taking part in this convocation. The significance of your meeting is sensed far beyond Plano, and even in this City from which Saint Augustine of Canterbury was sent to confirm and strengthen the preaching of Christ’s Gospel in England. Nor can I fail to recall that barely 120 years later, Saint Boniface brought that same Christian faith from England to my own forebears in Germany.
The lives of these saints show us how in the Church of Christ there is a unity in truth and a communion of grace which transcend the borders of any nation. With this in mind, I pray in particular that God’s will may be done by all those who seek that unity in the truth, the gift of Christ himself.
With fraternal regards, I remain
Sincerely yours in Christ,
+Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
You might want to take a lookthrough the provinces listed on the page in my tagline. I believe most AMiA churches use the '79, and I know the APCK uses the '28 BCP (which I prefer) and some of its churches the Anglican missal, but I've never researched the various provinces otherwise.
I have asked saints to pray for me, if that is what you mean.
Right at the end of the Ave Maria I do it every time I sing it, which is just about every day:
Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Or, since I am singing it: "Sancta Maria, ora pro nobis peccatoribus nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen."
Now, what I think I am doing is asking a holy lady to pray FOR me TO God, like I might ask you to pray FOR me TO God.
If I ask you to pray for me, or ask her to pray for me, as far as I know I am not worshipping either one of you.
You seem to know otherwise.
Enlighten me.
You can find them printed in the very back of the '28 BCP. Or online here.
So, are saints demigods in your religion? They play some minor role before you get to the big league. Seems like polytheism to me.
Ridiculous.
When I ask YOU to pray for me, I am not making a demigod out of you. I am asking a soul, precious to God, to add his voice to my own inexpressible groanings.
And when I ask Mary to pray for me, I am not making a demigod out of her either. I am asking a soul that I KNOW is precious to God, because the Bible says she was full of grace (I do NOT have that certain knowledge about you or any other living person I ask to pray for me) to add her voice to my own.
Where is the worship?
Where is the demigod?
There isn't any I am aware of.
Now, perhaps you don't like the idea of ever asking anyone else to pray for you, but that seems like a strange and singular doctrine of your own.
Grow up.
Not only do I have a statue of Mary but I have one of Saint Anthony too! And guess what? I pray the rosary and wear a scapular around my neck. How's that?
In defense of the ACC, I again say I am only new member of it (only since 2001), and am learning slowly bit by bit the history of the Christian church in the British Isles, but since I have joined this particular church, which our Bishops and our Archbishop stress is a continuation, rather than an innovation, I have yet to hear anyone teaching me about the history tell me that the ACC supports any other doctrine than Transubstantiation. Indeed, we have in the past, lost the interest of several Episcopalians who quibbled that CONsubstantiation was the proper form of worship. Apparently, we were too Catholic for them in that respect.
I must also add that our church is NOT NOT NOT under the auspices of the Archbishop of Canterbury, just as it is not under Rome. This distinction was made clear by the fact that the ACC was formed to decisively distance the Anglican Communion from the heresies that were acted upon in the 70s...hence the Affirmation of St. Louis. Please check out the site if you wish to know more about that. The links are on the left hand side of the main page.
We use the BCP because it is closest to the traditional liturgy that the ACC wishes to uphold.
Humility is the key here.
I am also an Episcopalian (half of my family is Roman Catholic). I have not been to church in years when the church turned left and left me behind. I too gave much consideration going Catholic again (I was baptized as an RC); but I tried, and just can’t do it. I live in Latin America, and maybe their views are different from U.S.; but I just couldn’t warm up to the snootiness and distance when I tried to talk with them a couple of times.
Watching the “marriage” of the Prince of Wales in St George’s chapel reminded me why I want to continue as an Episcopalian some day. The service was so uplifting.
My heart lept with joy to read this. I think you should prepare to lead many more in a like journey. I have a feeling this pope is going to cause a great winnowing.
bump
I am sorry that is not Christian doctrine. Nowhere in the New Testament is such things clearly written down for Christians to follow. Also, I cannot find holyness of the saints in the New Testament? What makes them holy? Is there some group that has a monopoly on declaring people to be saints? I also need to know what is the hierarchy among saints. Are any saints "holier" than others? Should one pick a saint carefully for communion so that he can be assured that his prayers will reach God?
You are headed for a really really hot place for eternity.
What's on your dashboard?
a blessed virgin prayer card sealed to the dash with some spilled coffee :-)
As for your accusation that praying in communion with the saints (of which anyone who seeks out God and endeavors to follow Christ is a saint) is not a Christian 'doctrine', you are under the idea that tradition has no bearing on a walk in faith. You miss the point completely when you narrow it down to faith alone.
Christian 'doctrine' stands like a three legged stool : faith, tradition, and reason. But I would hazard to guess you have a problem with the concept of the Trinity as well.
Better stick to economics till you learn Catholocism. You appear as a brainwashed fool to the informed.
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