Posted on 04/16/2005 2:06:11 PM PDT by lizol
„We’ve been dealt the best cards in 300 years” an interview with Radek Sikorski (an interview with Radek Sikorski - LIKELY POLISH DEFENCE MINISTER).
Radek Sikorski was born in 1963 in Bydgoszcz. In 1981-1989 he lived in Great Britain and studied political science, philosophy and economy at Oxford University, graduating with Master of Arts and Bachelor of Arts degrees. In 1986-1989, he was a war correspondent for the „Spectator” and „Observer” in Afghanistan and Angola, and later the Warsaw correspondent for „The Sunday Telegraph” (1990 - 1991). From 1990 to 1992, he was Rupert Murdoch’s advisor for investments in Poland. In 1992 he was appointed Deputy Minister of National Defense in Jan Olszewski’s government. From January 1998 to October 2001 he served as Undersecretary of State at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Republic of Poland, responsible for the consular division, cultural promotion, contacts with Polonia and countries in Asia, Africa, Middle East and South America. He received the World Press Photo award for spot news, for the picture „Victims”; author of a book on the war in Afghanistan „Dust of the Saints. [ Journey to Herat in Time of War”; and of „The Polish House, an Intimate History of Poland”.
Gregory Akko: In March 1981, you led the strike committee in your high school in Bydgoszcz. How do you recall 1980-81 now?
Radek Sikorski: I was 18 then and one always remembers one’s youth well. Recently, I was going through home archives and I found the minutes of a meeting of the Interschool Strike Committee I chaired. I found signatures of well known people like Max Kolonko, today’s correspondent for Polish television in New York. As it happens, the strike didn’t, in the end, take place because Lech Walesa cancelled the general strike. It was the culmination of the so-called Bydgoszcz provocation in 1981. Almost the entire country stopped then; the Warsaw Pact was on threatening maneuvers in Poland, and we were all convinced that the government had Solidarity leaders beaten on purpose. After many years, a hero of those days, Jan Rulewski, whom ZOMO (special police services) forcibly removed from a sit-in, told me that he insulted the officer who commanded the action, and that he hit him but it was sort of personal between them. Rulewski has dentures; he removed them and the world saw photos in which he looked as if somebody broke his jaw after a brutal beating
When, and under what circumstances, did you decide to study at such a prestigious university as Oxford in Great Britain?
While still in Poland I was a finalist in the national English language competition, thanks to which I got an automatic A on my high school final exams. Martial law in Poland in 1981 found me while I was in England, and I decided to ‘choose freedom’ – as we said in those days. Luckily, a year earlier they introduced a rule according to which political refugees could apply for the same grants as citizens. At Oxford, I was chairman of the Polish Society and member of the board of the debating club, the Oxford Union. I was always interested in politics, so the PPE degree (philosophy, political science, and economy), was made for me.
You are a journalist, writer, and publicist. In 1986-89 you were a war correspondent for British media during the war in Afghanistan. What did staying in a country like Afghanistan give you, and how did those experiences affect you?
Being in Afghanistan taught me respect for people from different cultures. Living in poverty, Afghans were giving me their last bowl of rice, and risked their lives to lead me through their country safely. I’m also less tolerant of the whining one hears in Poland all the time. In Afghanistan I saw worse poverty and terrible suffering, but people wore their pride deep inside them and nobody complained.
Radosław Sikorski, former Deputy Minister of National Defense, then Undersecretary of State at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Poland; you were then responsible for the consular division and contact with Polonia. Your statements concerning Polonia were controversial. How old were you in taking such a serious political position?
I became the deputy minister of National Defense at 29, in special revolutionary times. We were the first government chosen in a completely democratic way and the first one which declared our goal was to join NATO. I was one of very few civilians who had experience of wars and had contacts with Western military circles. My appointment was also meant as a signal that Poland would now promote people educated in the West rather than in the Soviet Union. I served in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs almost a decade later. I have the impression that Polonia appreciates some of my initiatives, for example when I made Ted Turner apologize for a nasty bigoted joke about Poles. Or that I helped to persuade Leslie Stahl to remove from her book ignorant and insulting statements about the Polish role in World War Two. Naturally, you can’t please everyone.
Is it easy to take such a high position at such a young age?
I was and am proud that I could serve the free Poland that had once I dreamed of in such responsible posts. That experience helps me today in my work as a journalist and political analyst. Knowing how it looks from the inside, it’s easier to take positions and draw scenarios.
Since April 2002 you have been executive director at the New Atlantic Initiative at the American Enterprise Institute, in Washington D.C. You present a Polish point of view in the heart of the American establishment in Washington D.C., 300 meters from the White House. Do your job and your tasks give you satisfaction, and do you like what you do?
I work in circles which influence the policies of the most powerful country in the world. For a person passionate about security policy and foreign affairs, it’s an experience like having a seat on the Forum Romanum. America is more different from Europe than we think, and it takes a skill for a European to help the two continents understand each other. It is true that I try to promote Central European and Polish points of view. Among the guest of the New Atlantic Initiative we’ve had Jerzy Buzek, Jan Krzysztof Bielecki, Leszek Balcerowicz, and General Mieczyslaw Bieniek. This summer we’ll co-organize a international conference in Gdansk honoring the 25th anniversary of the Solidarity movement.
Nowadays we talk a lot about how entering the European Union in 2004 is for Poland a chance for a civilizational leap. Poland in the EU brings a vision of a Pole who is tolerant, well educated, speaking a few languages, a real citizen of the world. Is there anything stopping a Pole outside the EU from being tolerant and well educated? Maybe Polish patriotism is a barrier, or maybe it’s the devotion to national tradition? Maybe it stops full Europeanization?
Of course, you can be all these good things outside the European Union, but membership in the EU is in our political and economic interest. We are also a more valuable ally for the U.S. as members of the EU, which is why successive U.S. governments supported our membership aspirations. Poland is a fairly important force for Atlanticism within the EU. We are also becoming better patriots inside the EU. Consider the recent incident when the European Parliament came within a whisker of passing a resolution commemorating the anniversary of liberating Auschwitz that contained scandalous words about “Polish concentration camps”. Our members of the European Parliament kicked up a fuss and the crime was ascribed to its true perpetrator, Nazi Germany. Even a year ago, no one would have noticed, or Warsaw elites would have advised pretending that nothing important had happened. Now, there are thousands of Poles working in the European institution and they are no worse than their western colleagues. In a few years they willlearn a lot, make some money, many of them will return to Poland as world-class bureaucrats. And they will have learnt that nobody will look after our interests better than we can ourselves.
Didn’t leading the military coalition of „New Europe” in Iraq harm our dealings with the EU?
A few gentlemen in Paris and Berlin got irritated that we dared to have our own opinion, but I believe that in the future they’ll be more willing to consult with Poland on important matters before making decisions. In a military sense Europe is and will be a Pygmy for a while yet, and nobody should be surprised that we count on our alliance with America.
We’re still waiting for Washington to acknowledge Polish support in the war on Iraq, and then in the Peace Corps there. There’s nothing free in this world, and nobody is doing anything free.
The military help of the USA for Poland has grown from $12 million to $66 million this year and President Bush has just announced that he will be asking Congress to increase this to $100 million. I believe this is a very important gesture and creates a real community of interests between Poland and the US. The U.S. needs our troops in Iraq, we need to modernize our army – it’s a mutual bargain that stands up to the scrutiny of voters in both countries.
I read your interview with Paul Wolfowitz, the U.S. Vice Secretary of State and one of the most prominent representatives of American neo-conservatism, coauthor of George Bush’s foreign policy. I’ll ask you the same question you asked Paul Wolfowitz during your conversation with him in November 2004: “But the U.S. supports undemocratic governments in Egypt and elsewhere. So how much is the project of exporting democracy to the Arab world a real one and how much part of a propaganda war to help justify Iraq?”
I think there’s always a gap between the ideals leaders preach and the actions they must take. But when that gap is too big, the impression of lack of sincerity seeps in. I think that after President Bush’s ambitious, prophetic inauguration speech. The U.S. needs to show that it was more than propaganda. For example, that the democratic crusade also applies to countries whose undemocratic regimes are helpful in some ways. As for me, I will be watching how forthright about democracy and human rights President Bush is during the upcoming meeting with President Putin. It would also be good to appropriate funding to the ‘Support of Democracy’ Act that Congress passed last year.
Now we get to the Ukrainian roundtable. How do you evaluate that event?
The people of Ukraine showed their independence and democratic aspirations and we Poles can be proud that we played such an important role in achieving success. Lech Walesa leaned on Prime Minister Yanukovych not to use force; President Kwasniewski was a mediator on behalf of the U.S. President, and influenced the opinion of the entire European Union. Ukraine proved yet again that when Europe and America cooperate, we usually succeed.
It’s time for few words about your family. Where did you meet your wife and how big is your family?
I met my wife, Anne Applebaum, in Poland in 1989. As journalists we went together in her car to Berlin and we sat on the Berlin Wall facing East German police. My wife was then a correspondent for the British magazine ‘The Economist’. Now she is a member of the ‘Washington Post’ editorial board, where she has a column on Wednesdays. Her history of the Soviet Gulag, for which she received the Pulitzer prize last year, is being published in Poland now. We have two sons, Alexander and Tadeusz.
What does it mean nowadays to be a man? Does your wife have any influence on your political career?
I think I passed the test of being a man before the Afghans during their war with the Soviet Union, when we were bombed for weeks and walked through mine fields. When I was a politician and appeared on TV, my wife always checked that my tie matched my shirt.
I was wondering if such political activity outside the homeland would not be (considering the experience you gained in the USA) used better in today’s ever-changing Poland? When will Radek Sikorski come back to the political scene in Poland? The election is this year.
Thank you for the suggestion; Naturally, I follow what’s happening in Poland and I have an impression that the people have finally lost their faith in the post-Communists. I’m only surprised that some are surprised that people who took money from the KGB have not been good guardians of free Poland.
From an American perspective, how do you see what’s happening in Poland?
The image of Poland in the United States is better than the image of Poland in Poland. I think that one or two things have worked out in Poland these last 15 years. As a generation, we’ve been dealt the best cards in 300 years. But when you’ve complained – with good reason - for three centuries, it’s difficult to stop. I think we need more American-style optimism and American-style sympathy for one another.
Thank you for the interview, and I wish you good luck in the political arena.
Thank you, too.
Interview with Radek Sikorski, Executive Director of New Atlantic Initiative of American Enterprise Institute in Washington D.C., by Gregory Akko, Chairman New Europe Coalition Political Action Committee. Translated by Katarzyna Miszta.
"A few gentlemen in Paris and Berlin got irritated that we had our own opinions....."
And?
ping
Just an observation from the faraway prairies of America, partner; this guy said what I had always suspected was the case (and thus proving my case)--that in the European Union, it is to be that only the opinions of Paris and Berlin matter.
Not.
But us kids didn't really know anything much about Poland or the people or for that matter, most other countries when we passed the classes. We knew there were Polish sausages and 'Polack' jokes, even though we didn't even know what 'Polack' meant.
So if you meet Americans who don't know much about life in Poland or (insert any country here), don't assume they're stupid, it was just the education we got. I think that now there will be more US-Poland interaction, people will learn more about it.
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