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Why Bush threatens secularism
Washington Times ^ | April 14, 2005 | Julia Duin

Posted on 04/15/2005 5:09:20 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

The Freedom from Religion Foundation issued a press release Sept. 13, 2001, calling the September 11 attacks by Islamist terrorists "the ultimate faith-based initiative."

The release went on: "Religion is not the answer, it is probably the problem."

And: "Prayer had its chance on September 11 and it failed."

September 11 "should have clinched the idea this is a naturalistic universe," group leader Mr. Barker says. "To stand by and do nothing makes God an accomplice. If He exists, why are we worshipping this monster?"

The fight against God and for abortion rights appear intertwined for Mr. Barker's mother-in-law, Mrs. Gaylor. She was born in 1926 in Tomah, Wis. A biography posted at the group's Web site, www.ffrf.org, says her mother died when she was 2 and her father, a farmer, found religion "embarrassing." She graduated as an English major from University of Wisconsin in 1949 and was married the same year.

After raising four children, Mrs. Gaylor, in 1972, founded the Women's Medical Fund, which has helped 14,000 poor women obtain abortions. In 1975, she published a book "Abortion Is a Blessing."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cnim; irreligiousleft; secularism
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"All of a sudden, I realized that religious groups had now dictated what rights a woman has to make an intimate moral decision on her own." - Barry Lynn, Americans United for the Separation of Church and State
1 posted on 04/15/2005 5:09:20 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

I noticed that all people for abortion happen to be already born.


2 posted on 04/15/2005 5:15:27 PM PDT by bahblahbah
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Christianity and other religions are essentially harmful, in the view of the foundation, which claims 5,000 members, most of them atheists who make small donations.

Another example of oversimplifying. It's the people at the extremes of this debate who are causing all the trouble. Neither side is willing to let others just be.

3 posted on 04/15/2005 5:16:46 PM PDT by risk
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"All of a sudden, I realized that religious groups had now dictated what rights a woman has to make an intimate moral decision on her own."

Intimate moral decision...

Has a flowery sound to it, doesn't it?

When she made her first "intimate moral decision", I'm sure it felt great while in the process of exercising that decision. Day late and a baby, I mean, dollar short if you ask me.


4 posted on 04/15/2005 5:17:48 PM PDT by rdb3 (To the world, you're one person. To one person, you may be the world.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

So if I want to "intimately morally" kill my husband then it's nobody's business? These people are blind.


5 posted on 04/15/2005 5:18:24 PM PDT by Aria (Terri: Do not ask for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee)
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To: risk

The left can't tolerate morality in law because that would stop them from murdering innocent babies.


6 posted on 04/15/2005 5:20:24 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Secular fundamentalism is as dangerous as any other kind of religious extremism.


7 posted on 04/15/2005 5:20:36 PM PDT by West Coast Conservative
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"Religion is not the answer, it is probably the problem."

Yeah, cuz you know all religions exhort their followers to hijacks jet planes and fly them into office buildings.

"Prayer had its chance on September 11 and it failed."

Man has had his chance a million times before Sept. 11, and he has failed every time. So if we're going to reject religion because of 9/11, let's reject humanism for every other day in the year.

"To stand by and do nothing makes God an accomplice.

An accomplice in what? Our right to self-determination? Yeah, He is. Of course, He could ordain the course of our days and leave us no choice. But then these same people would be whining about being slaves.

If He exists, why are we worshipping this monster?"

Because on His worst day, he's infinitely better than anything YOU have to offer.

By the way, if the Almighty's failures prove that He doesn't exist, what do His successes prove? Or do all the successes belong to Man?

8 posted on 04/15/2005 5:24:01 PM PDT by IronJack
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To: Aria

"So if I want to "intimately morally" kill my husband then it's nobody's business?"

Only if you remove his feeding tube and isolate his suffering by "right to privacy."


9 posted on 04/15/2005 5:25:33 PM PDT by Fam4Bush (If you bungle raising your children, I don't think whatever else you do well matters very much - JKO)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

The extreme left can't tolerate law and it can't tolerate morality. Christian moralists at the extreme will make any claims they like and base them on esoteric Biblical references. Neither side is capable of governing a free republic which bases its law on the fundamental belief that personal convictions have greater weight than the state's expression of others' beliefs. Neither extreme deserves the trust and confidence of the people.


10 posted on 04/15/2005 5:28:36 PM PDT by risk
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To: risk

Right, we should listen to you "moderates" with all of your perfect solutions to everything.


11 posted on 04/15/2005 5:30:10 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: risk

Neither side is willing to let others just be.

Oh, one side want's to let others just be, let the babies be!


12 posted on 04/15/2005 5:33:10 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: risk
The extreme left can't tolerate law and it can't tolerate morality. Christian moralists at the extreme will make any claims they like and base them on esoteric Biblical references. Neither side is capable of governing a free republic which bases its law on the fundamental belief that personal convictions have greater weight than the state's expression of others' beliefs. Neither extreme deserves the trust and confidence of the people.

(Knocks ring on desk) Hear Hear!!!

13 posted on 04/15/2005 5:33:40 PM PDT by Clemenza (Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms: The Other Holy Trinity)
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To: risk

Huh?


14 posted on 04/15/2005 5:34:17 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: Tailgunner Joe

I'm saying that I don't want help from this humanist organization for the same reason that I don't want help from the Bush administration's faith based programs: they're extreme, and they're justified on extreme terms. Why should my taxes go to Islamic causes? Are you happy with that yourself? I'd be really interested in seeing how you would defend Bush's encouragement of taxes being spent right here in America to support Islam.

The left wants to remove religion, and some people on the right want to impose it. We would be better off without either.


15 posted on 04/15/2005 5:35:16 PM PDT by risk
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To: risk

The relevant question is not whether I support such initiatives, but whether or not they are constitutional.


16 posted on 04/15/2005 5:40:39 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: tet68

I say to the left: let the babies be. I also say to the right: American families first. First before legal immigrants. First before sick babies in Africa. First before cheap Chinese products. First before illegal immigrants. First before "corporate rights." We have problems on both sides, and one only worries about the demand for abortion while the other only worries about trying to stop it. Both are killing us off one baby at a time, and pointing fingers at the other side.


17 posted on 04/15/2005 5:43:01 PM PDT by risk
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To: risk
...some people on the right want to impose it.

Google "Christian Reconstructionist" for one vision of an American theocracy.

18 posted on 04/15/2005 5:45:56 PM PDT by Max in Utah (By their works you shall know them.)
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To: risk
The left wants to remove religion, and some people on the right want to impose it.

Would you please give us an example of the "right" wanting to impose religion?

19 posted on 04/15/2005 5:48:34 PM PDT by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: Max in Utah
It's the one I'm against. It should be called "constructionist" because under our constitution, and those constitutions of our original states, it didn't ever exist. People's nearly unanimous values made us Christian. Then we encouraged a lot of non-Christian immigration, and we imported a lot of non-Christian philosophy from Asia and France. Guess what happened? We lost our unanimity. Out of one became many. This has been unfortunate, and I say that we should base our policies intelligently on admitting that we've made a mistake with our last 100 years of immigration, and our federally supported educational system that preaches Marxism and post modernism/post structuralism.

These are things that Tailgunner Joe seems reluctant to address, and yet to me they are far more critical than a slab of concrete in Roy Moore's courthouse.
20 posted on 04/15/2005 5:51:14 PM PDT by risk
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