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Anyone can deal with Republicans who shoot straight (liar, liar)
St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | 4/14/05 | Sylvester Brown Jr.

Posted on 04/14/2005 1:29:19 PM PDT by TomB

I have Republican friends. Really, I do. They may not be the "drop by anytime" sort of friends, but we can definitely have lunch without a fistfight. The Republicans I call friends are straight shooters. Most are fiscally conservative, favor a limited government and beefed-up military, and oppose government social programs.

Most times, we debate, disagree, then move on to more agreeable topics. With straight shooters, there are always agreeable topics.

Former Sen. John Danforth seems like a fire-from-the-hip sort of guy. His recent comments about his party's intervention in the Terri Schiavo case, and its opposition to stem cell research, were refreshingly bold.

"Republicans have transformed our party into the political arm of conservative Christians," Danforth said.

Wow! I've heard a lot of cowboy talk, holy roller babble and frothy freedom cliches from the GOP, but Danforth's comments seemed timely and level-headed. He and I would most likely find agreeable topics to discuss over lunch.

**snip**

I've noticed that comedian Bill Maher has been doing a bit of reaching out himself lately. Several times on his show, "Real Time with Bill Maher," he's encouraged more conservatives to join his audience. Maher's even conceded that his criticism of President George W. Bush's activities in Iraq may have been at least partly wrong.

"Look, on the long-range, big picture of getting the freedom-and-democracy ball rolling in the Middle East, maybe these guys had it right," Maher said on his show Friday.

Sounds to me like Maher's buying into the bait-and-switch rhetoric of the Bush clan. Maybe I would, too, if they were straight shooters. But, before the Iraq invasion, the rallying cry was against an "axis of evil" and "weapons of mass destruction." I don't recall any prewar speeches about delivering democracy to the Middle East.

**snip**

(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...


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Glenn Reynolds over at Instapundit takes him to the woodshed pretty good with a few examples of Bush saying exactly that.

Liberals truly think we are stupid.

1 posted on 04/14/2005 1:29:19 PM PDT by TomB
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To: TomB

I have Republican friends. Really, I do"

Stopped reading after this first line, the author is a condescending little snot.


2 posted on 04/14/2005 1:34:31 PM PDT by wrathof59 ("to the Everlasting Glory of the Infantry".........Robert A Heinlein)
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To: TomB

Heh! The libs sure are finding themselves in a difficult position now that it's become obvious that we were right all along about Iraq. They're trying to back up and change directions but they're doing it so clumsily and awkwardly I can't help but laugh.


3 posted on 04/14/2005 1:39:46 PM PDT by Zeon Cowboy
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To: TomB

"The Republicans I call friends are straight shooters. Most are fiscally conservative, favor a limited government and beefed-up military, and oppose government social programs."

So I guess we can assume, based on the Danforth quote, that none of Mr. Brown's friends are Christians, since he seems only to object to conservative Christians??? Apparently, Mr. Brown is not a 'straight shooter'.


4 posted on 04/14/2005 1:40:15 PM PDT by Spok
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To: TomB

"Liberals truly think we are stupid."

Fine, let 'em.
As long as they speak as condescendingly as this, they are exposed for who and what they truly are.


5 posted on 04/14/2005 1:41:13 PM PDT by Fudd Fan (MaryJo Kopechne needed an "exit strategy")
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To: TomB

Well .. anyone can deal with democrats who shoot straight - like Zell Miller.

However, most democrats can't shoot straight.


6 posted on 04/14/2005 1:42:32 PM PDT by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: TomB

I provided the examples in Glenn Reynold's first update, which were the address to the U.N. General Assembly and the speech noted by PBS Newshour :)

Pretty psyched about that. I'm famous! Woohoo!

Okay, maybe not.

After he printed those, I sent him another email noting Bush making the case for Middle East democracy in his 2002 State of the Union, and also the "Bush Doctrine" of "Bringing Democracy to the Muslims" derided as "preposterous" and "silly" "naivet" by a self-described "foreign correspondent and defense analyst" named Eric Margolis on October 10, 2002. Don't know if he intends to post those though.

Qwinn


7 posted on 04/14/2005 1:43:54 PM PDT by Qwinn
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To: TomB
This summarizes in a nutshell the dishonesty of the left. Anyone who was even halfway paying attention knows President Bush always had a host of reasons for invading Iraq, and democracy was always one of those reasons.

On top of the stuff Glenn Reynolds dug up, anyone could find President Bush's pre-war speeches specifically about Iraq.

The libs are like ostriches with their heads in the sand going "la la la, I can't hear you!" If they stopped playing dumb, they'd have to admit that they are the big fat liars.

8 posted on 04/14/2005 1:48:30 PM PDT by KJC1
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To: TomB

Why don't these protesters do something intelligent -- and maybe they'd make some converts. One juvenile stunt after another is not convincing argument for their positions -- even if they are the editor of the local newspaper or congressional representative.


9 posted on 04/14/2005 1:52:03 PM PDT by MikeHu
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To: wrathof59

Most liberals actually believe in their own superiority.


10 posted on 04/14/2005 1:52:09 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Liberals don't believe in anything.

There is only fear and loathing for as far as the eye can see. Their only hope is to convince everyone to share in their despair and hopelessness.


11 posted on 04/14/2005 1:57:26 PM PDT by MikeHu
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To: TomB
One example of MANY, President Bush's March 17, 2003 speech giving Saddam 48 hours to leave Iraq: (excerpt)

As we enforce the just demands of the world, we will also honor the deepest commitments of our country. Unlike Saddam Hussein, we believe the Iraqi people are deserving and capable of human liberty. And when the dictator has departed, they can set an example to all the Middle East of a vital and peaceful and self-governing nation.

The United States, with other countries, will work to advance liberty and peace in that region. Our goal will not be achieved overnight, but it can come over time. The power and appeal of human liberty is felt in every life and every land. And the greatest power of freedom is to overcome hatred and violence, and turn the creative gifts of men and women to the pursuits of peace.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030317-7.html

12 posted on 04/14/2005 1:58:50 PM PDT by KJC1
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To: Spok

It is entirely possible to be a Christian and also a fiscal conservative who favors limited government except in certain areas like defense. It's not a contradiction.


13 posted on 04/14/2005 2:01:30 PM PDT by VRWCisme
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To: TomB
TEXT of President's Address/Bush says U.S.-led forces begin Iraq attack (March 19, 2003 posting)

My fellow citizens, at this hour American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger.

On my orders, coalition forces have begun striking selected targets of military importance to undermine Saddam Hussein's ability to wage war. These are opening stages of what will be a broad and concerted campaign.

More than 35 countries are giving crucial support, from the use of naval and air bases, to help with intelligence and logistics, to the deployment of combat units. Every nation in this coalition has chosen to bear the duty and share the honor of serving in our common defense.

To all of the men and women of the United States armed forces now in the Middle East, the peace of a troubled world and the hopes of an oppressed people now depend on you.

That trust is well placed.

The enemies you confront will come to know your skill and bravery. The people you liberate will witness the honorable and decent spirit of the American military.

for conventions of war or rules of morality. Saddam Hussein has placed Iraqi troops and equipment in civilian areas, attempting to use innocent men, women and children as shields for his own military; a final atrocity against his people.

I want Americans and all the world to know that coalition forces will make every effort to spare innocent civilians from harm. A campaign on the harsh terrain of a nation as large as California could be longer and more difficult than some predict. And helping Iraqis achieve a united, stable and free country will require our sustained commitment.

We come to Iraq with respect for its citizens, for their great civilization and for the religious faiths they practice. We have no ambition in Iraq, except to remove a threat and restore control of that country to its own people.

I know that the families of our military are praying that all those who serve will return safely and soon.

Millions of Americans are praying with you for the safety of your loved ones and for the protection of the innocent.

For your sacrifice, you have the gratitude and respect of the American people and you can know that our forces will be coming home as soon as their work is done.

Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly, yet our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder.

We will meet that threat now with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of firefighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities.

Now that conflict has come, the only way to limit its duration is to apply decisive force. And I assure you, this will not be a campaign of half measures and we will accept no outcome but victory.

My fellow citizens, the dangers to our country and the world will be overcome. We will pass through this time of peril and carry on the work of peace. We will defend our freedom. We will bring freedom to others. And we will prevail.

May God bless our country and all who defend her.

03/19/03 22:43 ET
14 posted on 04/14/2005 2:05:42 PM PDT by WinOne4TheGipper (What're you looking at?)
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To: KJC1

I recall reading commentary about a year ago which argued that Bush lied about his reasons for attacking Iraq because he offered something like 26 reasons (by that unknown commentator's count). Apparently, the Unknown Commentator thinks that wars are fought for only a few reasons. In truth, the causes of a war are typically myriad, as was the case for invading Iraq.

And, as you observe, bringing democracy to the Middle East was one of those reasons. A reason, I must in truth add, about which I was skeptical (and still am a little, perhaps). But I hope that my skepticism is misplaced.

I do find interesting the Left's inability to distinguish between errors and lies. Clinton lied often. Bush, presiding in more turbulent times, has made errors. The "sophisticated" Left seems to think that perfect knowledge is available and attainable. Perhaps I should have used the adjective sophistical instead of sophisticated....

With respect to WMD, Bush honestly thought that Saddam Hussein was developing them. That he was proven to be mistaken does not make him a liar. Given that opinion was pretty united that Saddam was pursuing WMD, his error becomes even more excusable.


15 posted on 04/14/2005 2:09:33 PM PDT by bagman
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To: KJC1

Thank you, I added that to my links page, along with the contents of my post 14.


16 posted on 04/14/2005 2:13:32 PM PDT by WinOne4TheGipper (What're you looking at?)
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To: WinOne4TheGipper
I should have quoted this part from that same speech as well:

Many Iraqis can hear me tonight in a translated radio broadcast, and I have a message for them. If we must begin a military campaign, it will be directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you. As our coalition takes away their power, we will deliver the food and medicine you need. We will tear down the apparatus of terror and we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free. In a free Iraq, there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms. The tyrant will soon be gone. The day of your liberation is near.

17 posted on 04/14/2005 2:26:25 PM PDT by KJC1
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To: TomB
I've noticed that comedian Bill Maher has been doing a bit of reaching out himself lately. Several times on his show, "Real Time with Bill Maher," he's encouraged more conservatives to join his audience.

Maher's even conceded that his criticism of President George W. Bush's activities in Iraq may have been at least partly wrong.

Bill's already miserable ratings must have dropped even lower, he's desperate for anyone to watch him.

18 posted on 04/14/2005 2:29:28 PM PDT by RJL
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To: VRWCisme

My point was that this author seems to object to conservatives only when they are also Christians.


19 posted on 04/14/2005 2:36:21 PM PDT by Spok
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To: Spok

How can anyone be a Republican and say they're for less spending and small government? When under the last 10 years we have seen spending increases and more government with Republicans in control.

There is a reason why the author can relate to some Republicans. It's because in reality, he and them agree or more things than not. They are just two sides of the same coin. The difference is they use different reasons for getting there.


20 posted on 04/14/2005 3:11:33 PM PDT by libertarianben (Looking for sanity and his hard to find cousin common sense)
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