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To: AD from SpringBay
At one time Peter was the leader of "the" church simply because there was only one church that needed leadership.

Look at Matthew 16; Christ will build His Church. Or Eph 5:23 Christ is the head of the Church. Or 1 Tim 3:15, where Paul writes of "the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth". Or Col 1:18, "And he is the head of the body, the Church". When you say "there was only one church that needed leadership", you suggest that eventually there were other Churches. But there is always only one Church, spread out in space and time. So if the one Church needed leadership after Christ's ascension, then that same one Church still needs the same leadership today, i.e. someone sitting in the seat of Peter.

You seem to forget the keys, which were given to Peter. Peter was not the leader simply because there was a leadership vacuum somewhere. Jesus gave Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven, the keys of the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Jesus didn't just give to Peter the keys to the Jerusalem parish, or the parish in Rome. He gave to Peter the keys to the Church.

Just think about what that means, Christ giving to Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Eventually it will sink in.

But we don't hear of him [Peter] doing much outside of Jerusalem.

Only if you don't read the Fathers. If you read the Fathers, you will learn more about what Peter did. For a bit more, see my post #1283.

Also, regarding infant baptism, all those secondary sources you are using are trumped by the *primary* sources I quoted. And the primary sources you do use are mostly irrelevant, because they simply do not address the issue of infant baptism. But the whole point is moot once the authority of the Church has been determined.

-A8

1,434 posted on 04/25/2005 10:01:35 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8
Nice quick dismissal of my sources. Because you say...

I imagine you prefer Latin to the original Greek as well, and that any mention I might make concerning petros, petras, and other stuff like maybe the rock there is Jesus Christ will also be equally dismissed.

Last call on my part, for this one anyway - here's me thinking about...what that means, Christ giving to Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven. The keys - I'm thinking the keys are for the binding and loosing of "whatsoever" in earth and heaven, as in the opening and closing locks or doors (to complete the image given in Mt. 16:19). True, those were given to Peter first. Yet, Christ repeats Himself in Mt. 18:18. In this section of scripture He speaks to the entire church - giving them the same authority and ability.

And the churches at Antioch, and Ephesus, and Corinth, and Thessalonica, and all the others, equally share that authority. And that authority is passed down to us today. One of the points you ignore is the fact that each church in Revelation receives it's own letter and that before the New Testament is complete, we see a plurality of equal, scriptural, local, and visible, Spirit led, New Testament assemblies. Just think about what that means, along with the early history of "the" church. Eventually it will sink in.

It's been real, it's been fun. Heck, at times it's even been real fun. But I feel like we're at the point of diminishing returns so, for now, thanks for the civility.
1,447 posted on 04/26/2005 8:16:53 PM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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