Posted on 04/13/2005 3:32:48 PM PDT by Conservative Firster
You completely discredit yourself when you make ridiculous statements like this. The vast majority of illegal aliens happen to be coming from Mexico, let's face it. If they were pouring in from some other country we'd be talking about them. Get a clue Ben. Or maybe you do understand but like any good leftist who wants open borders you'd rather throw out the race card continously.
The guest worker programs you mentioned:
Tech worker Visas- no illegals
Nurse Visas-no illegals
Crew worker Visas-no illegals
Have they done anything to slow illegal immigration down? Your non-answer to my previous question speaks volumes.
According to your thoery, we need to get rid of the programs that are working.
Another non-sensical answer. I have no idea what "theory" you're talking about. The only thing I'm calling for is enforcement of current laws. Without that they'll keep coming with or without another guest worker program.
What I contend is this: there will no be enforcement, which means that we'll massively increase legal immigration as was done in 1990 while doing nothing whatsoever to discourage the millions entering illegally. The result is in 10 years the problem will be 1000 times worse.
At that point we'll have the Ben Ficklins of the world telling us we need another amnesty and more guest worker programs to solve it. If the GOP is even in power anymore that of course will take further compromising with democrats to pull this magic off. Thanks but no thanks.
Your staement that having no guestworker plan will prevent illegals is wacko.
Lol Ben's getting all flustered because he can't defend his "arguments".
The question isn't about a guest worker program, it's about enforcing current laws against illegal immigration with or without one.
And Ben Ficklin whips out his Race Card! This must mean that you realize you're losing the argument on this thread.
Perhaps you and I can go thru your plan of enforcement, point by point?
Simple: enforce employer sanctions. It was Reagan's idea so I think the GOP owes it to the Gipper to at least give it a try before throwing up the white flag.
They tried to push verification off on the employers and the employers got sued. Can't be done that way.
The government is perfectly within its rights to check the legal status of employees and remove the illegal ones. You're posting to me on another thread where the government finally got off its lazy butt and did just that:
They'll catch a few that way. Any other ideas?
Nope because they'll catch a whole bunch that way if they threw some resources into it. Instead of 2000 investigators hire 10,000 or whatever it takes to get the job done.
"Whatever it takes". What will it take? Surely you can estimate?
See post #151.
How many illegals? Average number of illegals per employer. Calculate how many employers. From that you could figure how many investigators.
On that previously linked thread you said this to me:
"They have staticians, analysts, economists, etc. They have the Dept of Commerce, the Federal Reserve Bank, etc. This is their source of facts."
Well there you go, the government has at their disposal all those professional people and more so let them figure out how many investigators they need to get the job done. That's what we're paying them for.
The drift of our conversation was what it would take to get rid of them. You mentioned auditing and investigating so I was trying to get you to figure out how many new govt employees we would need.
And I'm trying to tell you I don't know. The government estimates there's 10+ million illegals in the country. If you couple strong employer enforcement with mandatory Social Security verification the government could probably get a handle on the problem eventually.
If Bush wants a guest worker program so bad he's going to have to offer concessions and this is one of them. At least that's what DeLay is saying.
Bush doesn't write legislation. He will sign whatever they give him.
Now, in addition to the stand off between the 3 groups in Congress, add a stand off between the houses.
If they go the way that you want, you will be looking at illegals for a long time before all of it is put in place.
In 1996 an AgJobs amendment offered by a California congressman to an immigration bill was voted down in Congress. They may have continued working on one but the support is not there to bring in millions more agworkers as well as give another massive amnesty. Craig can huff and puff all he wants but I have serious doubts it's going anywhere past the Senate.
Is it possible some form of a guest worker program will get passed? Maybe, I don't know. All I'm saying and have been saying if you were paying attention is they will need to couple strong interior enforcement with any program because a new program by itself will not stop or even slow down the illegal alien flow.
They negotiated for a long time and the growers/republicans refused to yield. Their reasoning was that the republicans were growing stronger so the longer they waited, the better the deal that they could negotiate.
This all changed when it became obvious that the republicans were splitting. The word went out in mid 03. Make your best deal now.
In a straight up vote on the floor of the House, AgJobs will pass. It only takes 15 republicans joining with the dems.
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