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Frist Opposes Amendments on Immigrants
New York Times ^ | April 13, 2005 | By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

Posted on 04/13/2005 3:32:48 PM PDT by Conservative Firster

WASHINGTON, April 12 - Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader, said on Tuesday that he was discouraging efforts to incorporate immigration and border security measures into the Senate version of a supplemental military spending bill, which would set the stage for showdowns among Congressional Republicans over immigration later this year.

Meeting with reporters, Dr. Frist, of Tennessee, said, "I am encouraging my colleagues to defer, to postpone discussions of immigration and to postpone that debate."

He said, however, that he was still negotiating with senators who seek to add immigration provisions to the military spending bill.

The House version of the bill includes provisions to block illegal immigrants from obtaining standard driver's licenses, to make it easier to reject requests for asylum and to override environmental rules blocking construction of a barrier along California's border with Mexico.

Senators from each party seek to add amendments that would make it easier for employers to hire more foreign workers.

The immigration debate reveals a fault line in the Republican Party, pitting cultural conservatives hostile to illegal immigrants against business groups that seek foreign laborers. President Bush has declared his support for a guest-worker program that would be open to currently illegal immigrants.

On Tuesday, Dr. Frist called immigration "a huge issue, an issue that we have to address this year, that the president put a proposal on the table last year - legislatively, we did not address it - I believe we have to address this year."

House Republicans, however, said that negotiators in a conference last year promised that the provisions would be included in some "must-pass" legislation, like the supplemental military spending bill. In negotiations with the Senate, House Republicans added, they were determined to keep the provisions in the final version of the bill.

Senate Democrats want to offer a number of amendments seeking to loosen immigration restrictions or expand foreign-workers programs. Dr. Frist and Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the Democratic leader, were in talks on Tuesday night about whether to limit the number of immigration amendments to a handful, with some Democrats seeking assurances that the final bill would not include the House's immigration restrictions, aides said.

Senator Judd Gregg, Republican of New Hampshire, and Senator Barbara A. Mikulski, Democrat of Maryland, said they planned to offer an amendment that would make more visas available for temporary seasonal workers, which they said would be needed by the hotel and fishing industries this summer.

Meanwhile, two Republican senators, John Cornyn of Texas and Jon Kyl of Arizona, advocating the tightening of border security along the lines of the House measures, said they also favored deferring the immigration debate in the Senate and enacting comprehensive measures that would also include some form of Mr. Bush's guest-worker program.

Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform and a conservative strategist working with the White House on its guest-worker proposal, predicted that each side would ultimately succeed only through comprehensive legislation that tightens border security and at the same time adds foreign workers to the labor pool. "Immigration reform and border security are not competitors; they are the same thing," he said.

He said he believed that the House Republican opponents of the guest-worker program would "get boxed out by a bipartisan coalition," and that Mr. Bush could achieve his guest-worker program mostly through strong Democratic support.


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: 109th; aliens; bordersecurity; bushamnesty; frist; illegalaliens; immigration; issues
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To: Ben Ficklin
Lets face it. You don't want mexicans here whether they are legal or not.

You completely discredit yourself when you make ridiculous statements like this. The vast majority of illegal aliens happen to be coming from Mexico, let's face it. If they were pouring in from some other country we'd be talking about them. Get a clue Ben. Or maybe you do understand but like any good leftist who wants open borders you'd rather throw out the race card continously.

The guest worker programs you mentioned:

Tech worker Visas- no illegals
Nurse Visas-no illegals
Crew worker Visas-no illegals

Have they done anything to slow illegal immigration down? Your non-answer to my previous question speaks volumes.

According to your thoery, we need to get rid of the programs that are working.

Another non-sensical answer. I have no idea what "theory" you're talking about. The only thing I'm calling for is enforcement of current laws. Without that they'll keep coming with or without another guest worker program.

What I contend is this: there will no be enforcement, which means that we'll massively increase legal immigration as was done in 1990 while doing nothing whatsoever to discourage the millions entering illegally. The result is in 10 years the problem will be 1000 times worse.

At that point we'll have the Ben Ficklins of the world telling us we need another amnesty and more guest worker programs to solve it. If the GOP is even in power anymore that of course will take further compromising with democrats to pull this magic off. Thanks but no thanks.

141 posted on 04/15/2005 12:29:31 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest

Your staement that having no guestworker plan will prevent illegals is wacko.


142 posted on 04/15/2005 12:48:40 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
Your staement that having no guestworker plan will prevent illegals is wacko

Lol Ben's getting all flustered because he can't defend his "arguments".

The question isn't about a guest worker program, it's about enforcing current laws against illegal immigration with or without one.

143 posted on 04/15/2005 12:53:20 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Ben Ficklin
Like all the hate mexican crowd, your objective is to throw mis-info around.

And Ben Ficklin whips out his Race Card! This must mean that you realize you're losing the argument on this thread.

144 posted on 04/15/2005 1:12:59 PM PDT by judgeandjury
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To: Conservative Firster
Frist Opposes Amendments on Immigrants Illegals
145 posted on 04/15/2005 1:15:31 PM PDT by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest

Perhaps you and I can go thru your plan of enforcement, point by point?


146 posted on 04/15/2005 1:18:33 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

Simple: enforce employer sanctions. It was Reagan's idea so I think the GOP owes it to the Gipper to at least give it a try before throwing up the white flag.


147 posted on 04/15/2005 1:23:51 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest

They tried to push verification off on the employers and the employers got sued. Can't be done that way.


148 posted on 04/15/2005 1:43:27 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
They tried to push verification off on the employers and the employers got sued. Can't be done that way.

The government is perfectly within its rights to check the legal status of employees and remove the illegal ones. You're posting to me on another thread where the government finally got off its lazy butt and did just that:

Audit Shows Illegal Workers Hired

149 posted on 04/15/2005 1:54:14 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest

They'll catch a few that way. Any other ideas?


150 posted on 04/15/2005 1:56:53 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
They'll catch a few that way. Any other ideas?

Nope because they'll catch a whole bunch that way if they threw some resources into it. Instead of 2000 investigators hire 10,000 or whatever it takes to get the job done.

151 posted on 04/15/2005 1:59:41 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Thats a popular phrase here.

"Whatever it takes". What will it take? Surely you can estimate?

152 posted on 04/15/2005 2:03:09 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
Surely you can estimate

See post #151.

153 posted on 04/15/2005 2:11:24 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Thats not estimating, that just throwing numbers around.

How many illegals? Average number of illegals per employer. Calculate how many employers. From that you could figure how many investigators.

154 posted on 04/15/2005 2:19:16 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
How many illegals? Average number of illegals per employer. Calculate how many employers. From that you could figure how many investigators.

On that previously linked thread you said this to me:

"They have staticians, analysts, economists, etc. They have the Dept of Commerce, the Federal Reserve Bank, etc. This is their source of facts."

Well there you go, the government has at their disposal all those professional people and more so let them figure out how many investigators they need to get the job done. That's what we're paying them for.

155 posted on 04/15/2005 2:27:09 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Well yes, they can pull together lots of stats.

The drift of our conversation was what it would take to get rid of them. You mentioned auditing and investigating so I was trying to get you to figure out how many new govt employees we would need.

156 posted on 04/15/2005 2:33:45 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
You mentioned auditing and investigating so I was trying to get you to figure out how many new govt employees we would need.

And I'm trying to tell you I don't know. The government estimates there's 10+ million illegals in the country. If you couple strong employer enforcement with mandatory Social Security verification the government could probably get a handle on the problem eventually.

If Bush wants a guest worker program so bad he's going to have to offer concessions and this is one of them. At least that's what DeLay is saying.

157 posted on 04/15/2005 2:42:25 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Bush and everyone else wants a guest worker program. I know you don't want to believe it but Congress was working on reform long before Bush. Even AgJobs negotiations began before Bush was elected.

Bush doesn't write legislation. He will sign whatever they give him.

Now, in addition to the stand off between the 3 groups in Congress, add a stand off between the houses.

If they go the way that you want, you will be looking at illegals for a long time before all of it is put in place.

158 posted on 04/15/2005 3:03:06 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
Even AgJobs negotiations began before Bush was elected.

In 1996 an AgJobs amendment offered by a California congressman to an immigration bill was voted down in Congress. They may have continued working on one but the support is not there to bring in millions more agworkers as well as give another massive amnesty. Craig can huff and puff all he wants but I have serious doubts it's going anywhere past the Senate.

Is it possible some form of a guest worker program will get passed? Maybe, I don't know. All I'm saying and have been saying if you were paying attention is they will need to couple strong interior enforcement with any program because a new program by itself will not stop or even slow down the illegal alien flow.

159 posted on 04/15/2005 3:15:33 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
You are missing somthing on AgJobs.

They negotiated for a long time and the growers/republicans refused to yield. Their reasoning was that the republicans were growing stronger so the longer they waited, the better the deal that they could negotiate.

This all changed when it became obvious that the republicans were splitting. The word went out in mid 03. Make your best deal now.

In a straight up vote on the floor of the House, AgJobs will pass. It only takes 15 republicans joining with the dems.

160 posted on 04/15/2005 4:11:52 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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