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David Frum: A Dialogue on the UK Election
Il Foglio [Italy] ^ | April 13, 2005 | David Frum

Posted on 04/13/2005 11:50:08 AM PDT by quidnunc

“You’ve been dreading this. Tony Blair has called an election. Now you are finally going to have to make up your mind: Do you hope he wins or loses?”

“Why do I have to answer that? I am not a British voter. Why can’t I just say that I’m glad that both Blair and Conservative leader Michael Howard are such strong friends of America — and that the special relationship will remain special no matter which of them wins?”

“What? Are you telling me that you, a right-wing Republican — that you can’t instantly choose between a socialist and a fellow conservative?”

“Well it’s complicated isn’t it? I mean Tony Blair has been as staunch a friend as America has in the world. From the beginning of the war on terror, he has been magnificent: brave, eloquent, thoughtful, and incredibly helpful. Don’t all Americans, right and left, owe him equal support in return? And it’s not as if his domestic record has been so very bad from a conservative point of view. UK taxes remain low by European standards. Unemployment is down, home ownership up.”

“Have you gone soft in the head? True, Blair may not be a socialist fanatic like some of his predecessors. But he’s more than bad enough. He has abolished the deduction for mortgage interest. He has raised fuel taxes. He has increased contributions to Britain’s national insurance system. And worse is definitely ahead: Blair has relaxed his grip on public spending — it’s risen from 38% of the national income to 42% over the past three years. He wants to spend even more in the years to come. That’s why it is so important to replace him now.”

“Replace him? With what? Michael Howard’s new model Conservative party is not exactly boiling with free-market zeal. They have offered a derisory tax cut — and promise almost as much new spending as Labor. And they have actually attacked some of Tony Blair’s most rational reforms, such as his proposals to charge university students more of the cost of their own education.”

-snip-


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: davidfrum; ukelection

1 posted on 04/13/2005 11:50:09 AM PDT by quidnunc
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To: quidnunc
Say what you like about Tony Blair; if we ever have to face someone like him in our elections here, we may have a tough row to hoe.

Blair is the only member of either of our left-leaning parties, who seems to elevate courage, responsibility and clarity to prominence in decision-making.

I won't deify him, since he's as human as the rest of us... but I can think of worse guys to have beside me in a gang fight.

2 posted on 04/13/2005 11:58:26 AM PDT by pickrell (Old dog, new trick...sort of)
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To: quidnunc
If Blair gets his way, the next prime minister of Britain won’t be able to help the United States no matter how strongly he wants to: Those decisions will be taken in Brussels, not London.”

“Why can’t British voters re-elect Blair now and then reject the Constitution later?”

“It doesn’t work like that. A victory for Blair will be interpreted as a victory for EU integration.”

“And a defeat for Blair will be interpreted as a defeat for the pro-war coalition.”

“So, hmmm, as the British say.” “Yes. Hmmm.”
****************************************
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, indeed.

3 posted on 04/13/2005 12:46:02 PM PDT by okie01 (A slavering moron and proud member of the lynch mob, cleaning the Augean stables of MSM since 1998.)
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To: okie01

And a defeat for Blair will be interpreted as a defeat for the pro-war coalition.”
__________________________________________________________

This may be the case internationally but it is a very small issue in the UK. There is a hard core anti war movement who will vote on this issue alone. Around 10 to 15% is the figure I heard on the news. The main issues will be Immigration, the Economy and Europe. I am hoping for Michael Howard to replace Blair. Our Foreign Policy is safe in either of their hands but I do not trust Blair domestically.


4 posted on 04/13/2005 12:49:36 PM PDT by kingsurfer
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To: okie01
“And a defeat for Blair will be interpreted as a defeat for the pro-war coalition.”

One what basis do you make that comment?

5 posted on 04/13/2005 12:50:49 PM PDT by snugs (An English Cheney Chick - BIG TIME (A true blue Conservative))
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To: kingsurfer

I agree just hope many more Britains do in marginal seats


6 posted on 04/13/2005 12:52:35 PM PDT by snugs (An English Cheney Chick - BIG TIME (A true blue Conservative))
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To: kingsurfer
Love your profile page great to find a fellow Brit who thinks similar.

Did you see the pathetic press conference Blair held today with his "little red books". Actually I felt sorry for Jack Straw he was in the back row which I thought was a snub for what is one of our senior Cabinet positions but then what could he add to the conference when Blair insists on always being the mouth piece on foreign policy.

Sorry to pollute this thread with the following photo but it reminded me of a certain other "little red book"


7 posted on 04/13/2005 1:00:11 PM PDT by snugs (An English Cheney Chick - BIG TIME (A true blue Conservative))
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To: okie01

History should be good to Blair.

The mistake he made was insisting that he and Bush forgo the regime change argument, and go to the UN and ask for permission on WMD, which gave SH and sons time, the left, France, Iran, Syria, and other enemies time to organize and defend SH.

And Bush was wrong make that deal with Blair, when his first instinct was to go with the previous admin, and congress on regime change.

Cheney was right all along of course.


8 posted on 04/13/2005 1:00:14 PM PDT by roses of sharon (WITH)
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To: snugs

He did look quite chinese in that collarless suit he wore a few years ago.


9 posted on 04/13/2005 1:03:34 PM PDT by kingsurfer
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To: snugs

Nice profile page btw.


10 posted on 04/13/2005 1:04:14 PM PDT by kingsurfer
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To: roses of sharon
Blair would never have got regime change through the British Parliament and he knew it there just was not enough Conservative MPs to make that possible.

There was also the problem that many believe/interpret that under English/British law regime change is not a legal basis to go to war on.

IMHO Tony Blair saw his chance to get his mark on history and the world stage and he jumped for it rather than be honest and battle for what he supposedly believed that Saddam needed to be removed regardless of the WDM issue.
11 posted on 04/13/2005 1:07:46 PM PDT by snugs (An English Cheney Chick - BIG TIME (A true blue Conservative))
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To: kingsurfer

:0)


12 posted on 04/13/2005 1:08:25 PM PDT by snugs (An English Cheney Chick - BIG TIME (A true blue Conservative))
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To: snugs
One what basis do you make that comment?

I didn't. It's part of the column.

Click on the link and read before commenting.

13 posted on 04/13/2005 1:40:31 PM PDT by okie01 (A slavering moron and proud member of the lynch mob, cleaning the Augean stables of MSM since 1998.)
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To: snugs
Agreed.

But honesty has nothing to do with it. Blair, Bush, Italy, Spain, Israel, and others did not want to depend entirely on the predictability of a madman and sons, with the M.O. to use WMD, the billions to finance WMD capabilities to make WMD, and the past and current acts of funding of Islamic cults.

I'm am sure they did not want to fight a war in Afghanistan, or the WOT in general, with Saddam and sons over their shoulders. And they both said as much.

Saddam and sons had 12 years of noncompliance on their ceasefire agreements, and 14 months of planning while the UN dithered.

No one lied to go into Iraq, all the while knowing that their lie would be exposed. No way would Bush, Blair, Rice, Powell, Cheney, Rumsfeld, ect, all with decades of excellent public service reputation, (ie, Bush would risk his fathers reputation as Pres, VP, CIA chief?) to tell a 14 month whopper????

Blair knew Saddam needed to be removed because of the WMD issue, regardless whether he had "active stockpiles" on hand at that exact moment of battle. I believe that they thought he had stockpiles.

He could reactivate at a moments notice.

Blair and Bush both spoke often of the human rights issues in Iraq, the crushing and (immoral IMO), sanctions that left millions consigned to tyranny for decades, they both knew that the fly overs and sanctions were not working.

Containment was not an option.

Regime change for the sake of what? Of course it was his WMD capabilities, and the fact that he affected every fear of war, every calculation of the future of the ME.
14 posted on 04/13/2005 3:13:51 PM PDT by roses of sharon (WITH)
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To: quidnunc

Lets send the folks in Ohio to Great Britain to monitor the elections.


15 posted on 04/13/2005 3:46:04 PM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: okie01

Sorry apologies


16 posted on 04/13/2005 4:05:20 PM PDT by snugs (An English Cheney Chick - BIG TIME (A true blue Conservative))
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To: kingsurfer

I'm not understanding you here. PM Blair by supporting the EU Constitution is making UK foreign policy European foreign policy. Are you comfortable with that?

What's going on with UKIP?


17 posted on 04/13/2005 9:13:59 PM PDT by dervish (Let Europe pay for NATO)
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To: dervish

I see what you mean. Blair supports the constitution but it will be put to referendum no matter who gets elected. You do raise a good point though as politicians tend to ignore referendum decisions they do not like. The constitution will already have been stopped by the French public so quite what will happen to it is up in the air at the moment. I am happy to have an economic un ion in Europe but when it comes to laws an dofreign policy it is not workable, too many chefs etc.

The UKIP is an interesting situation. They got a good number of EU parliament seats and I eagerly await the results of the next election. At most they are likely to get a few seats but it is really hard to tell. This election will be the most interesting and hardest to predict for a long time. I hope the Conservatives make a strong enough showing to do some good.


18 posted on 04/14/2005 11:01:42 AM PDT by kingsurfer
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To: kingsurfer

Can UKIP and Conservatives get together so that they can win enough seats for a Howard win and form a coalition government that will stand tough on EU encroachment and immigration?


19 posted on 04/14/2005 11:06:36 AM PDT by dervish (Let Europe pay for NATO)
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To: dervish

That is a good question. Depending on how focused UKIP they might get some seat but I doubt it would be enough to tip the balance either way, although every little helps.
If it is a hung parliamnet then there will be all sorts of people jumping from one party to the other. A Conservative/UKIP alliance with a few New Labour ship jumpers could make up a coalition. It is really hard to call this election but I can say that the Conservstives will make gains and Labour will make losses but how much is pretty hard to say.


20 posted on 04/14/2005 11:10:41 AM PDT by kingsurfer
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