Posted on 04/12/2005 4:46:09 PM PDT by SJackson
German prosecutors have provoked outrage by ruling that the 1945 RAF bombing of Dresden can legally be termed a "holocaust".
The decision follows the refusal by the Hamburg public prosecutor's office to press charges against a Right-wing politician who compared the bombing raids to "the extermination of the Jews".
German law forbids the denial or playing down of the Holocaust as an incitement to hatred.
So delicate is the subject of the slaughter of Jews under Hitler that any use of the word "holocaust", or comparison with it, faces intense scrutiny and sometimes legal action.
But prosecutors have declined to pursue further the case of Udo Voigt, the chairman of the far-Right NPD, who likened the RAF's raids to the Nazis' "final solution".
Rudigger Bagger, a spokesman for the Hamburg public prosecutor, said the decision took into account only the criminal, not the moral, aspects of the case.
But he cited as a legal precedent a ruling by the federal constitutional court that favoured free speech in political exchanges, if defamation was not the prime aim of the argument.
Holger Apfel, the NPD's leader in the Saxon regional parliament, caused a scandal in January when he shouted down a commemoration of the Dresden bombing, prompting many others to walk out in disgust.
His outburst was covered by parliamentary privilege but Mr Voigt applauded and repeated the statements elsewhere.
Paul Spiegel, the president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, criticised the decision by prosecutors not to take action. He said the statements were incitement and allowing them to stand opened the door to further such comments.
"Morally, I have no understanding of this," he said. "One can ban such remarks if you use the law consistently. It is questionable whether statements that are clearly incitement come under freedom of expression."
Although the NPD is despised by other parties, German politicians reluctantly accepted the ruling.
Dieter Wiefelspüetz, the interior spokesman for the Social Democrat Party described the phrase "holocaust" in the context of Dresden as an "exploitation of the victims". But he supported the decision not to prosecute.
Attitudes towards the Allied bombing campaign, which killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, are changing. Estimates of the death toll in Dresden in February 1945 hover at about 35,000. All the same, some historians claim that as many as 500,000 people were killed in the raids.
Strictly speaking, the word "holocaust," which comes from the ancient Greek for "burnt", might seem apt for Dresden, much of it immolated by the fires started by the RAF's incendiary bombs.
But its primary meaning is now so closely linked to the Nazis' treatment of the Jews that such etymology appears to be in bad taste.
Of course you are referring to the Germans in Poland and not the RAF at Dresden. If you are talking about the Americans, then you need to read Taylor's book. The only major mistake the AAF seemed to make at Dresden is that 1/3 of the US bombers ..... bombed the wrong country.
Very soon the rightful rulers of Europe, the French and Germans will be in control of the European Union.
I'm sure they will treat Britain with great respect, as they have here.
It couldn't be compared to Dresden, but only because the scale was different. Had the Germans been able to get the same level of destruction going there then they would have.
Mind you, we should thank our lucky stars the Germans switched to civilian targeting with bombing.. That effectively lost them their aerial advantage by allowing the RAF to recover. I still think we would have won anyway, but it might have added on a year or more to the war.
They started the war and they killed MILLIONS!!! I WROTE MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE IN THEIR DEATH CAMPS...PLUS THEY KILLED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CIVILIANS IN LONDON, COVENTRY AND ALL THROUGHOUT EUROPE WITH THEIR AIR FORCE.
Germany was a major aggressor and villian of a nation, filled with people who thought they were "superior beings". People who followed Hitler into hell... no doubt.
They did not even get half of what they did to others. Somebody had to put them so low to the ground that they would have to struggle just to get to curb level. Dresden was the picture of what Germans could expect for all of Germany if they did not quit fighting. Dresden showed Germans that they were NOT superior anybody.
I am old enough to remember WWII and all the grieving American families who lost menfolk who were killed fighting Germans and their pal, Japan. I remember my neighbor, a really kind guy. He was murdered by Germans at a prisoner of War camp. I still remember my father's friend who was mowed down on the beach at Normandy. I still remember the wails ands cries of their wives and mothers.
I will never forget Germany and its evil ways.
I HAVE ZERO SYMPATHY FOR THEM OR THEIR MURDEROUS NAZI POPULACE.
After Ike saw the death camps he asked... Are you still having trouble hating the nazis?
I often think they deserved at least ONE atomic bomb. They got a firebombed Dresden... they really deserved a whole lot WORSE!
Well I for one am sure sorry that the RAF was so mean to those fine folks at Dresden. My advise to these Germans whining about this is... STFU.
It's understandible only in the sense that they have exchanged one form of totalitarian fascism for another.
I've seen that book advertised. It's an attempt to excuse the terror-bombing of Dresden. Pretty low, IMHO. Besides, who said the Jews have the exclusive use of the word "holocaust"?
I sure hope you do understand!!
Germany was the master EVIL in the world.
There is a saying... what goes around comes around....
Well, Germany learned it well because they tried to start hell on earth... and they got HELL HANDED RIGHT BACK TO THEM!
BOOM!
Wow! Or should I say WOW! You're a tough little monkey 60 years after the war ended, aren't you?
You can say that again!!
And I was a tough guy in Korea too. You jerk!
If not, I most strenuously urge you to consider it.
What you are saying on this thread is indefensibly evil.
You keyboard commandos make me sick. Why don't you go shoot somebody's cat if you're so tough?
"Well, Germany learned it well because they tried to start hell on earth... and they got HELL HANDED RIGHT BACK TO THEM!"
And my family and I are glad they did. Some folks think we were having a football game or playing tiddlywinks with these bastards. It's all perspective, this was life or death to the free world, nothing less.
He's not some nutjob revisionist. Have you read it?
The Germans were really attacking and hurting the English air force. They were bombing aircraft factories and English air fields. Churchill was told it was likely the way things were going,that Germany was going to achieve air superiority. Everyone knew that if Germany got air Superiority they would launch an invasion and defeat Britain.
Churchill took a gamble. He ordered a highly risky attack. He ordered the Bombing of Berlin. Hitler was furious. The German air force had been careful not to bomb civilian areas. They did not want the British to bomb German cities. . The German Generals knew what Churchill was doing. They wanted to continue their campaign to achieve air superiority. Hitler overruled his generals He ordered massive air attacks on London in retaliation. It was exactly what Churchill hoped for.
While Hitler attacked London, England was able to build enough planes and enough air strips to defeat the German air force in the Battle of Britain.
Dresden was bombed because it was a college town. Churchill thought that if we killed a lot of German intellectuals they would be so mad at Hitler they might figure out a way to overthrow his regime. It backfired.
After the war research showed that the attack convinced many Germans that they had to win the war or we would kill them all.
We need to understand that wars are not fought by gentleman's rules. A nation facing defeat will do what ever it takes to survive. That includes using any tactic they think might help them survive.
Roosevelt read somewhere that the Japanese were very afraid of bats. He seriously proposed dropping plane loads of bats on Japan. Wiser heads prevailed.
I remember going to movie theaters during WWII. I was just a little boy. The news reel would show dead Japanese and dead Germans mowed down by our troops. The audience would scream and wildly applaud. So did I.
"Free world"?? Remember our ally, Stalin?
Between this and Red China threatening Japan over their history textbooks, I must say that I'm glad that everyone has buried the hatchet and let bygones be bygones.
Good question. Who said that?
No, I haven't read it, but I've read a review from the history book club. Sounds like some pop historian trying to find a new angle to sell books.
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