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To: Red6

I take back my above statement with apologies. I should have said, "You are either naive or a KGB-sympathizer."

Since Putin and his KGB pals now run Russia themselves, instead of serving the Communist rulers of the Soviet Union, as in the past. So it isn't "Communism" any more, just rule by the most evil part of the former Communist regime.


19 posted on 04/14/2005 7:36:21 AM PDT by strategofr (The secret of happiness is freedom. And the secret of freedom is courage---Thucydities)
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To: strategofr

OK, ask yourself this, what START, CFE or “ANY OTHER” treaty have they violated under Putin?

http://www.dtra.mil/press_resources/fact_sheets/index.cfm

We have official government agencies that do NOTHING other than look for discrepancies and cheating within these treaties.

They abide to what they say they will. Do they do research and build new weapons? Sure, as we do too. Do they sell their weapons? Sure, as we do too. Have they threatened to nuke you as they once did? No.

Just throwing names and accusations around is neither accurate, rational nor will it bring anything. George H. Bush was head of the CIA. But you’re worried that Putin was in the KGB? Here’s a hint, most people don’t pop up on the political radar screen out of a vacuum. George W. Bush was considered a political lightweight when he ran the first time and he was a governor (TX) and USAF NG officer (Fighter pilot).

Russia is not actively working against us as they did in the past. Many of our efforts in the former Soviet republics would NOT be possible without Russian support. RUSSIAN helicopters in part flew in the first US CIA operators into Afghanistan. Even there we would not be today (Or only with great difficulty and much higher losses) if they wanted to work against us.

We delivered Stingers to the Afghan fighters in the 80s to fight the Soviets. It was a war between the two of us. In Vietnam, they screwed with us and ensured MIG21, SA2, SA6 and RPGs got there with advisors to even show them how to fight us. Today, Russia is working WITH US in Afghanistan. While not helping us in Iraq, they also don’t intentionally work against us on a tactical level on the ground. If they wanted too, they could and they would be effective. But they CHOOOOOSE not to, as we don’t screw with them. On a Strategic level in the war on terror, we work together since we are both plagued by the same evil out there.

There is a complete lack of trust between us. They distrust us more than we them. They are to this day scared by Napoleon, World War I, and World War II. They were affected in ways by WWII that we were not. They are the ones that see US forces all along their boarders, NATO expansion, the fall of their system (Warsaw pact and economically), the diminishing status/power/influence of their former Republic and their former Soviet Republics are becoming members of NATO or aligning themselves with the EU (Ukraine) in part. Put it in perspective from their view.

While our intentions are not bad, evil or imperialistic, (We are NOTHING like what we are made out to be even in our own liberal media), it’s very easy to fear us especially when in context of their history of being invaded three times within a little more of a millennium.

http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=7079

http://www.defenselink.mil/transformation/articles/2005-03/ta032805a.html

http://www.7atc.army.mil/news/maslov.htm

For years now, US and Russian forces have been conducting more and more exchanges and even training. This just recently happened and got little MSM coverage but was a major event. The Russians are reciprocating and we are going to play with their stuff while we are their guests.

The Russians are our competition in the defense market. They have conflicting goals in many areas, but they are no longer the threat they once were. They themselves are realizing that it it’s not in their best interest to work against us. That does not mean that they have to say “Yes/Da” to everything we utter. But the games of the Cold War (Which really wasn’t cold) are near over. We are NOT allies, we are NOT even friends, but we are NOT the enemies of past. Even if they wanted to, they are not in the position today to pull something big off. Lithuania, Ukraine, Belarus, Armenia, Uzbekistan, Khuzestan, Kyrgyzstan…. Are not going to volunteer and jump on some Soviet World quest tour tomorrow. Poland hates their guts and Hungary too. The DDR is part of Germany, Romania likes Americans, so does Bulgaria…… The Russian might is not there. They are themselves threatened by China who is rapidly upgrading and modernizing.

As to Russian military power. Their pilots hardly fly, their tanks don’t run, their MAIN battle tank is a T72 (Not a T80, 90 or Black Eagle or any other things you see on Vladimirs tank/gun/fighter web page). Their subs are rusting and occasionally sink. Their troops are underpaid (If at all), their military has massive corruption and is still conscripted (In part poorly trained). They have drug issues. Their main rifle is the AK47. They are not the power they once were. They have not been modernizing at the pace of past, and are today MAYBE ½ the power they once were (From all the split away republics), that’s not counting the members of the Warsaw pact they lost. They actually produce a lot of high tech weaponry. But they can’t afford it for their own forces. What they export to some in the Middle East is often better than what they themselves can afford.

Real world is- they took massive looses (excess of 5,000 men) in each Chechen war (1994/99). That’s against an enemy a fractionticimal (Very very small) compared to what we had to deal with in Iraq. For all practical purposes, they LOST the first Chechen war of 1994. Look at what the Chechens had to fight with, how big Chechnya is, its population, size of cities and where it is in relationship to Russia (Bordering). They still don’t have that area under control and they invaded again in 1999 and have been there ever since.

http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/fmsopubs/issues/hepatiti/hepatiti.htm

http://www.treefort.org/~cbdoten/bulls/122799a.shtml

While there is good reason to not trust them, as they don’t trust us. I hardly think they are scheming to invade the US in a Red Dawn style. Again Vladimirs homepage will tell you some “wishful thinking” but reality is that they are regionally falling behind. They are NO strategic power anymore other than they can nuke you. But they can’t take and hold ground somewhere. Putin is doing what he can to slow and reverse the decay of Russian military power. Don’t view it as a revitalization of former Soviet aspirations, but rather a desperate attempt to not loose it completely in the defense sector and be a regional military midget with a lot of land. Russia is a nuclear threat (potential) and a threat in that they do sell on occasion high tech weaponry to dubious nations or could play games against us this way. However, reality is that they DO uphold the treaties; they don’t intentionally play against us today and we don’t against them. While no buddies, we also don’t want to go behind the house. No one will benefit from such stupidity and we both know it.

Red6


20 posted on 04/14/2005 9:41:57 AM PDT by Red6
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