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To: Agamemnon
"the book of Genesis written by Moses."

You're assuming Genesis was written by Moses; an assumption not universally shared by any stretch of the imagination. Personally, my Catholic school taught the multiple writers theory - that Genesis was actually written by several unknown writers. You may or may not believe that, but don't assume everyone else does as well.

"Is Jesus Chist credible to speak with regard to His Creation?"

Indeed Jesus would be credible for a historical account of the creation of the world if you're a Christian. That said, Jesus wasn't a historian speaking to archaeologists, giving an account of the specifics of creation. He was, however, a messenger delivering a message. He often did so through the use of parables or stories. It's quite likely that the message of Genesis was more important for Jesus than the story/(ies) of Genesis.

"Do you believe what Jesus Christ says about His Creation?"

Yes. Do I believe he's saying what some claim he's saying? No.

"The Ten Commandments were written by the finger of God (Exodus 31:18). They are the Law. The finger of God wrote plainly that the entire Creation came to be in the space of six literal days."

Which part of the 10 Commandments states that creation came to be in six literal days? Or are these two entirely unrelated things you're trying to join so that credibility from one statement can be handed to another which lacks support? Genesis was either written by Moses (a man), a group of men, or by 'the finger of God'. If God wrote it, the God's in need of a good shrink, as per the conflicting sequences of creation contained within Genesis. If Moses or other men wrote it, then it's only as perfect as they were. I seem to remember a story in Genesis regarding the perfection of humans - or rather, the lack thereof.

"If we agree that question #1 is true, and that God wrote the Ten Commandments, it is equally true to say that Jesus Christ wrote the Ten Commandments. The writer of the Law is clear. Do you believe the writer of the Ten Commandments?"

You're really stretching here, but we're right back to square 1. This is known as a Complex Question, and it is a logical fallacy.
85 posted on 04/12/2005 2:25:32 PM PDT by NJ_gent (Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.)
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To: NJ_gent; wideawake; presidio9
"You're assuming Genesis was written by Moses;

Actually, no. Jesus Christ specifically speaks affirmatively of Moses' account of Creation "in the beginning." If Moses' account is good enough for the Creator of the Universe, it's good enough for me. Is it for you?

... an assumption not universally shared by any stretch of the imagination. Personally, my Catholic school taught the multiple writers theory - that Genesis was actually written by several unknown writers. You may or may not believe that, but don't assume everyone else does as well.

"Let God be true, and every man a liar." (Romans 3:4) I don't particularly care what "higher critics" and pompous-assed "scholars" think about a contrivance known as the JDEP postulate, or what incorrect teaching you happened to receive in a Catholic school. No scholar or nun is greater than Jesus Christ. Do you agree?

"Is Jesus Christ credible to speak with regard to His Creation?" Indeed Jesus would be credible for a historical account of the creation of the world if you're a Christian. That said, Jesus wasn't a historian speaking to archaeologists, giving an account of the specifics of creation.

Jesus Christ is the God of archaeologists and the God of history, too, or do you mistakenly believe that any man, whatever his supposed training or biases, knows more than the Creator of the Universe, Himself? The scripture speaks of those who are "wise in their own conceit," and who thereby subsequently wallow in their own foolishness. (Proverbs 26:12). I'll even challenge you to produce one archaeolgical find that contradicts a thing that Jesus Christ or Moses said or wrote.

The context of your posting was in terms of Christianity. My reply to you is in the context of Christianity, also.

He was, however, a messenger delivering a message. He often did so through the use of parables or stories. It's quite likely that the message of Genesis was more important for Jesus than the story/(ies) of Genesis.

Back to question 1: Jesus Christ is God. Do you agree?

If so, then as God, He is also the law giver and law interpreter. He is far more that just “a messenger.” Jesus Christ affirmed Moses’ creation account as part of a response to a matter posed to Him about a question of law. Jesus did not only speak in parables. Do not confuse when Jesus is speaking to a matter of law, and when He is speaking in parables.

"Do you believe what Jesus Christ says about His Creation?" Yes. Do I believe he's saying what some claim he's saying? No.

I think you have a problem with what Jesus said about his own Creation, because you do not appear to believe His own words about the subject. That, however, is a matter you will have to take up with Him, not me.

"The Ten Commandments were written by the finger of God (Exodus 31:18). They are the Law. The finger of God wrote plainly that the entire Creation came to be in the space of six literal days." Which part of the 10 Commandments states that creation came to be in six literal days?

Speaking of the commandment regarding observing the Sabbath: Exodus 20:11: “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”

Next question?

Or are these two entirely unrelated things you're trying to join so that credibility from one statement can be handed to another which lacks support?

Jesus Christ tied His personal credibility regarding who He is straight to the writings of Moses (John 5:45-47). Jesus links Himself directly to the credibility of the writings of Moses. That's good enough for me. Is it for you?

Genesis was either written by Moses (a man), a group of men, or by 'the finger of God'. If God wrote it, the God's in need of a good shrink, as per the conflicting sequences of creation contained within Genesis.

Genesis was written by Moses. Jesus Christ says as much. Moses also wrote Exodus. Jesus Christ inspired and spoke through Moses and the prophets. “All scripture is given by inspiration of God….”(I Timothy 3:16), “…holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit (I Peter 1:21), “God who…spoke in times past unto the fathers by the prophets, has…spoken to us by his Son,…by whom also He made the worlds.” (Hebrews 1:1-2)

You have been shown where the book of Exodus clearly says the finger of God wrote the actual Ten Commandments. Six literal days’ creation account is Jesus Christ’s own choice of words. It is a statement of fact in God’s own words. The Ten Commandments is the Law of God; it is not a parable, nor are any of the Commandments open to debate. One accepts them at his pleasure and rejects them at his peril.

Just admit that you choose not to believe Jesus Christ. If you won’t admit it outright, we’ll let your sophistry speak for itself.

If Moses or other men wrote it, then it's only as perfect as they were. I seem to remember a story in Genesis regarding the perfection of humans - or rather, the lack thereof.

Jesus Christ is God, therefore He is perfect as is His opinion of the words He inspired Moses to write. Will you stand there and question Christ’s own credibility on this matter? Apparently so.

"If we agree that question #1 is true, and that God wrote the Ten Commandments, it is equally true to say that Jesus Christ wrote the Ten Commandments. The writer of the Law is clear. Do you believe the writer of the Ten Commandments?" You're really stretching here, but we're right back to square 1. This is known as a Complex Question, and it is a logical fallacy.

We’ll take it then that your answer is, “no,” you do not believe the writer of the Ten Commandments, which means that you do not believe Jesus Christ. But we figured that out earlier, didn’t we?

I am a natural scientist by training and by evidence of professional accomplishments over the past 25 years. I routinely resolve complex questions. I know those who are scientists who try to make things seem more complex than they really are.

I don’t know whether you happen to call yourself a scientist of any accomplishment or not, but I do recognize someone who mistakenly believes he has to make belief in the credibility of Jesus Christ something more complicated than it actually is.

Bluntly speaking it’s a yes or no answer. Either you believe Him, or you don’t.

I see it in the world of science all the time. One’s ego tends to make things unnecessarily complicated. Whether it’s the study of science or the study of scripture, one only begins to obtain understanding of the truth, when one finally masters the ability to put their ego aside long enough to do so.

100 posted on 04/12/2005 8:10:19 PM PDT by Agamemnon
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