Thinking Straighter; Why the world's most famous atheist (Anthony Flew) now believes in God.

christianitytoday ^ | April 8 05 | James Beverly/Anthony Flew

[churchillbuff]

Flew remains agnostic about orthodox views of Jesus, though he has made some very positive remarks about the case for the Resurrection. In the journal Philosophia Christi he states: "The evidence for the Resurrection is better than for claimed miracles in any other religion." No, he still does not believe that Jesus rose from the dead. However, he told me, the case for an empty tomb is "considerably better than I thought previously."

[spinestein]

[world's most famous atheist Antony Flew]



Who???

[Atchafalaya]

Baby steps.

[BigFinn]

You know... Anthony Fool.

... the fool that hath said in his heart, there is no God.

[Joe 6-pack]

I wonder if he's ever read Chesterton (or Lewis who echoed the sentiment) that Christ, unlike the other great philosophers, prophets, etc. asserted that he was divine. Chesterton and Lewis indicate that given that assertion, it really limits the possibilities as to the true nature of Christ. I've pondered what they've written and have altered it somewhat but the documentary record that Christ proclaimed himself to be divine really does boil it down to a small number of choices. HE was:

1. Actually divine.

2. Insane, and genuinely believed he was the Son of GOD (and the most influential insane man in the history of humanity).

3. Sane, and knowingly misrepresented the truth for entirely altruistic reasons (although lying would have been in contradiction to his message, and he refused to recant even when faced with one of the most horrible deaths imagineable).

4. Sane, and knowingly misrepresented the truth for immoral reasons and personal aggrandizement / gain, and refused to recant even when he stood to lose everything by not recanting.

5. An entirely fictional character whose myth was perpetuated more effectively than any other propoganda in history and brought down the most powerful empire in the world.

6. Some other alternate possibility that does not fit into the above categories.

I wonder which Flew would choose.

[Mind-numbed Robot]

Those who search for proof of God, especially the very intelligent ones, amaze me in that they either have a deficient definition of God, or if that is in order, they fail to see that a "proof" of God would in itself negate the thing they just proved as being God.

Therefore, evidence can be gathered which points in a particular direction but a true belief comes back to faith, the thing they discounted to start with. It is indeed a journey.

Belief in Jesus is also an act of faith, despite historical evidence of his existence and teachings, to believe he was the Son of God requires simple faith.

So now we have accepted God and Jesus through faith, what is the practical aspect of that?

Jesus died for our sins so that by believing in him we need no longer be burdened with everlasting guilt. We simply accept his gift and try to not be guilty again. That is a tremendous relief and positive benefit to living a fruitful life.

He defeats our most feared enemy - death. No longer need we be fearful of dying, for our faith in him saves us from that. Until we accept Jesus through faith, for most of us, the specter of death is always lurking in the shadows of our minds. It influences every thing we do. To be relieved of that burden is to be truly free.

He gives us a trouble free port in all storms. No matter what happens, our faith in him and in his plan for our lives eliminates fear, want, worry, and need. We need not fret on how to solve problems, we need to just talk to him through prayer and trust in his guidance.

These are the things that "intelligent" people see as superstition. Being egocentric, as we all are before seeing a higher path, they don't want to be considered fools by believing in fairy tales. So, paradoxically, they believe in the fairy tale of physical life and being.

It is not easy to believe - until you do, then it is as easy and natural as can be. We pierce the veil and see reality but not the reality we previously saw. These are the things intelligent people who, relying on logic and natural science, can't see. Look at all the benefits they miss.

[Talking_Mouse]

How true is His Word:

Psalm 19

1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.

[NewRomeTacitus]

I thought the world's most famous atheist was Madeline Murray O'Hare, contract-killed by her son who was in turn "disappeared" by the treacherous swine he was dealing with.

[Ronzo]

*PING*

A very interesing article...

[Talking_Mouse]

I wonder which Flew would choose.

2. Insane, and genuinely believed he was the Son of GOD (and the most influential insane man in the history of humanity).

From my reading of Flew (and I admit it was only in collage comparitive religions class 3 years ago), he would choose 2. Jesus was insane but truly believed He was the Son of God.

[tophat9000]

bookmark bump

[ashtanga]

I am but a layman, and can only say this. Life is too complex to have come about by a whim of nothingness. I see an intelligent designer, although much of creation is crafted in such a way as to puzzle an engineer. The leap from intelligent designer to God is perhaps impossible, or only logical. I'm not quite sure.

[spinestein]

[...a "proof" of God would in itself negate the thing they just proved as being God. Therefore, evidence can be gathered which points in a particular direction but a true belief comes back to faith, the thing they discounted to start with. Belief in Jesus is also an act of faith, despite historical evidence of his existence and teachings, to believe he was the Son of God requires simple faith.]



This is very interesting, and I think it's an accurate description of a believer's faith and of the reason nonbelievers doubt.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[latina4dubya]

ping

[Ronzo]

From the article:

...Flew detests any notion that a loving God would send any of his creatures to eternal flames. He cannot fathom how intelligent Christians can believe this doctrine. He even said in his debate with Terry Miethe that he has entertained the thought that the Creator should punish, though not endlessly, only those who defend the notion of eternal torment. On this matter, Flew is willing to entertain fresh approaches to divine justice. In fact, he had just obtained Lewis's book The Great Divorce in order to assess Lewis's unique interpretation on the topic of judgment.

If Flew doubts the possibility of eternal punishment, he should read this Freeper thread: A Freeper book review: "If Grace Is True"

[ClancyJ]

To me, God's hand can be seen in the design of the life forms of earth. Just walk in your garden and note how many different unique birds, insects, animals, plants. Note how beautifully each is made.

Accident would have created blandness, simple design, few varieties.

But, we have the work of a Master Artist.

[mc6809e]

Those who search for proof of God, especially the very intelligent ones, amaze me in that they either have a deficient definition of God, or if that is in order, they fail to see that a "proof" of God would in itself negate the thing they just proved as being God.

Excellent point. Any proof of goid negates the thing proved as being god.

Therefore there is no god.

Good work.

[mc6809e]

To me, God's hand can be seen in the design of the life forms of earth.

Your desire to believe in god blinds you to the myriad of defects in life forms.

If you look harder, the flaws become obvious. Just consider the human body.