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Scientists shun Kansas evolution hearing
Washington Times (via India) ^ | 08 April 2005 | Staff

Posted on 04/10/2005 3:53:04 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

A pro-evolution group has organized what appears to be a successful boycott of Kansas hearings on intelligent design.

Alexa Posny, a deputy commissioner with the state department of education, told the Kansas City Star that only one person has agreed to testify on the pro-evolution side for the hearings scheduled for May.

"We have contacted scientists from all over the world," Posny said. "There isn't anywhere else we can go."

Harry McDonald, head of Kansas Citizens for Science, charged that the hearings, called by a conservative majority on the state board of education, have a pre-ordained outcome.He said that testifying would only make intelligent design appear legitimate.

"Intelligent design is not going to get its forum, at least not one in which they can say that scientists participated," he said.

Backers of intelligent design, the claim that a supreme being guided evolution, say it is a theory with scientific backing. Opponents believe it is an attempt to smuggle religion into public education.


We can't post complete articles from the Washington Times, so I got this copy from a paper in India. If you want to see the article in the Washington Times (it's identical to what I posted) it's here.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: crevolist; education; kansas; scienceeducation
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To: Junior

Are We Doing It for The Children?


381 posted on 04/11/2005 8:18:16 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: MacDorcha

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Baal the god of the sun, fertility, and flocks according to the beliefs of certain ancient Semitic peoples? Wasn't he worshipped by the Carthaginians? They may have sacrificed their children to him but that was their ignorance (they believed their sacrificed babies would spend all eternity in the blissful paradise of the Sun god, right?), it doesn't seem to be an act of malice. It may be Idoltry but using the name doesn't imply that one is a believer in the false god.

Enough with this rubbish and back to the task at hand.


382 posted on 04/11/2005 8:18:30 PM PDT by Gava
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To: BootsOnTheGround

Approximately 98.6° of all statistics are made up on the spot.


383 posted on 04/11/2005 8:23:30 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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placemarker


384 posted on 04/11/2005 8:44:33 PM PDT by js1138 (There are 10 kinds of people: those who read binary, and those who don't.)
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To: Gava

Baal was a pagan god. Yes he WAS the god of the sun as you said, but that's just an example of what he WAS. As said semitic peoples refocussed on monoteheism (Zoroastrians are credited with first recognizing monotheism, they still practice to this day, but number only in the hundreds of thousands)

And the semites dropped the pagan gods that they picked up from their nomadic lifestyle from Akkadia. Baal later became known as Beelzebub (Baalzebub) who we refer to as Satan now. Cast out of Heaven.

It is also important to know that "Baal" is a title. So no one "given" deity held the name. However, it is worth noting that the title was given to the (semi-political) opposing (leading) god of Yaweh. One either held God or Baal. So Baal was in opposition to God.

Also, it must be pointed out that Baal having changed to Satan became the enemy of Jesus, tempting him in the wilderness.


385 posted on 04/11/2005 8:50:49 PM PDT by MacDorcha ("Do you want the e-mail copy or the fax?" "Just the fax, ma'am.")
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Thank you for your reply!

Neither group was interested in using scientific results (and uncertainty estimates) as an input to political policy.

Indeed. Of course not. Reagan's star wars was mostly a bluff to make the Russians go into a tail spin, which they did. Bush is also a good poker player.

Politics wrt foreign relations and national defense has more to do with the illusion of science than the facts of it - hence all the espionage. Directed energy weapons are another example...

386 posted on 04/11/2005 8:57:42 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Approximately 98.6° of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I suspected it was just a matter of degree...

387 posted on 04/11/2005 9:01:21 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: Doctor Stochastic; betty boop
Thank you for your reply!

You're correct here; they haven't. This is why ID isn't worthy of being taught in high school classes.

Intelligent Design is not a theory which can be taught as such in a classroom - it is a statement of the controversy surrounding the theory of evolution which is taught in the classroom.

The controversy is what needs to be taught along with the alternative speculations and the state-of-the-art. Who knows? The kids might get a lot more interested in science if they know there are important questions which remain unanswered.

388 posted on 04/11/2005 9:02:08 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: bondserv
Thank you so very much for your kudos and encouragements!
389 posted on 04/11/2005 9:03:02 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: js1138
Thank you for the link!
390 posted on 04/11/2005 9:03:49 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Terriergal
LOLOLOL! That was the classic Monty Python!
391 posted on 04/11/2005 9:04:46 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: PatrickHenry
Backers of intelligent design, the claim that a supreme being guided evolution

ID makes no such claim. Neither is ID incompatible with much of evolutionary theory.

Backers of the materialist monopoly show the weakness of their case by slipping into lies, half-truths, and innuendo to preserve their place.

392 posted on 04/11/2005 9:09:01 PM PDT by JCEccles (Andrea Dworkin--the Ward Churchill of gender politics.)
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To: dmanLA; js1138
Martin Luther's interpretation of the relevant Scriptur:

4) But in addition to approval of his work, significant criticism existed. In 1539, Martin Luther wrote: "Mention has been made of some new astrologer, who wanted to prove that Earth moves and goes around, and not the firmament or heavens, the sun and moon... This fool wants to turn the entire art of astronomy upside down! But as the Holy Scriptures show, Joshua ordered the sun, and not Earth, to halt!" Protestants were initially more hostile to Copernicus; the Catholic resistance developed later.

Source

393 posted on 04/11/2005 9:25:56 PM PDT by Virginia-American
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To: Virginia-American
It's pretty amazing how selective history becomes.

I do not believe in communal or inherited guilt, so I am not offended to hear that my ancestors or political fore-bearers were less than perfect.

The problem is not with our ancestors, but with ourselves, and what we do with what we have learned.
394 posted on 04/11/2005 10:08:07 PM PDT by js1138 (There are 10 kinds of people: those who read binary, and those who don't.)
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To: Junior

So the origin of life is unexplained?

I have heard from evolutionists that life came from non-living matter. Is there evidence of this?


395 posted on 04/11/2005 11:22:17 PM PDT by dmanLA
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To: MacDorcha
No, but information communication implies such.

You're playing semantic games here. You're trying to distort Darwin's original comment beyond any semblance of its original context and then using that dishonest distortion as "proof" that Darwin included a Creator as part of the theory of evolution

The quote from Darwin that you originally provided referred specifically to the process that brought the first life forms into existence. This process is not, in any way, a part of the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution does not include the mechanics of this process. As such, for you to claim that Darwin was attaching a Creator as part of the theory of evolution indicates that you are either lacking in reading comprehension skills or you are a complete and total liar. The fact that you have played bizarre semantics games in order to "prove" your demonstratably false "point" tends to place suspicion on the latter.
396 posted on 04/11/2005 11:51:14 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: dmanLA
I have heard from evolutionists that life came from non-living matter. Is there evidence of this?

There is evidence, but not enough to formulate a full-fledged theory. Moreover, the theory of evolution does not include within its scope life coming from non-life.
397 posted on 04/11/2005 11:52:16 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Alamo-Girl; Doctor Stochastic; marron; Ronzo; PatrickHenry
Intelligent Design is not a theory which can be taught as such in a classroom - it is a statement of the controversy surrounding the theory of evolution which is taught in the classroom.

That is exactly the point, A-G: Intelligent Design is not a systematic theory that can be taught. It is -- it seems to me -- more of an inventory of problems that neo-Darwinist theory hasn't touched. At least it has not done so, so far.

It seems Darwinist theorists have two choices: They can outright deny the insights of ID that point to the seeming incompleteness of natural selection in certain key areas of evolutionary explanation, or they can embrace them, and see what further progress they can make from the new insights.

I don't think the proponents of Darwinist evolution have any right to stifle new insights that might prove useful to its own researches in the long run.

I've said it before, so I hope I'm not boring folks to tears to say it again: I have little doubt that the universe evolves, and all things in it evolve. That makes me an evolutionist, though not necessarily a Darwinist. Darwin had invaluable insights into the processes of natural selection, species adaptation to environmental change, and so forth. But he does not deal with questions of life, particularly its inception -- that is, how it arose in the first place.

Since these are vital questions of perennial interest to the human mind (if history has any testimony to give), why censor them? In classrooms, where eager young minds and proto-scientists tend to gather?

To which a Darwinist might reply: because they aren't "scientific questions." But if science is about giving us a truthful description of the universe and all things in it, how can it dispense with such questions and be faithful to its mission?

398 posted on 04/12/2005 12:05:29 AM PDT by betty boop (If everyone is thinking alike, then no one is thinking. -- Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: dmanLA; Ichneumon
So the origin of life is unexplained?

At the moment, yes.

I have heard from evolutionists that life came from non-living matter. Is there evidence of this?

Yes there is. Once more, Ichneumon, one of our resident research analyst, has compiled quite an impressive list of the research being done in this area. And, mind you, the stuff he posts is, as I pointed out before, only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to research. He often includes links to ongoing lines of research and additional evidence in his posts.

He might be persuaded to repost his compilation, though I hold out little hope of it making any impression upon you. However, as I said, we're not doing it for you.

399 posted on 04/12/2005 3:12:45 AM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Children and young adults. By the time a person reaches 30, if he lacks a flexible mind he is unlikely to ever be persuaded as to the validity of another position.

Mental flexibility includes being able to put yourself in your opponent's shoes and see things from his point of veiw (this is often called "empathy"). It also covers what might be considered a vivid imagination (which aids in the empathy, above, and allows one to plan for most contingencies). Unfortunately, many fundamentalist Christians equate mental flexibility with mental weakness and eschew it. Young folks, on the other hand, are typically not under such a handicap.

400 posted on 04/12/2005 3:18:16 AM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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