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Scientists shun Kansas evolution hearing
Washington Times (via India) ^ | 08 April 2005 | Staff

Posted on 04/10/2005 3:53:04 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

A pro-evolution group has organized what appears to be a successful boycott of Kansas hearings on intelligent design.

Alexa Posny, a deputy commissioner with the state department of education, told the Kansas City Star that only one person has agreed to testify on the pro-evolution side for the hearings scheduled for May.

"We have contacted scientists from all over the world," Posny said. "There isn't anywhere else we can go."

Harry McDonald, head of Kansas Citizens for Science, charged that the hearings, called by a conservative majority on the state board of education, have a pre-ordained outcome.He said that testifying would only make intelligent design appear legitimate.

"Intelligent design is not going to get its forum, at least not one in which they can say that scientists participated," he said.

Backers of intelligent design, the claim that a supreme being guided evolution, say it is a theory with scientific backing. Opponents believe it is an attempt to smuggle religion into public education.


We can't post complete articles from the Washington Times, so I got this copy from a paper in India. If you want to see the article in the Washington Times (it's identical to what I posted) it's here.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: crevolist; education; kansas; scienceeducation
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To: Dimensio

It doesn't address that information is communicated by living things?


301 posted on 04/11/2005 4:50:05 PM PDT by MacDorcha ("Do you want the e-mail copy or the fax?" "Just the fax, ma'am.")
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To: MacDorcha
It doesn't address that information is communicated by living things?

It doesn't address "bootstrapping information into dead matter".
302 posted on 04/11/2005 4:55:44 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Ichneumon
Well, now there's TOO MUCH evidence, so oddly enough there still isn't any. </creo_logic>
303 posted on 04/11/2005 5:05:14 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: dmanLA

304 posted on 04/11/2005 5:11:59 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: Dimensio
ID is a theory that the universe is not just a random happening - that it was created by a power we don't understand and can't explain completely.

ID is a political movement that is attempting steal the credibility of science in their effort to claim scientific "proof" of the existence of God.

Since they have no positive evidence in their favor, their method is to cast questions on the validity of evolution, while piosly claiming that "truth" is their only agenda. While ignoring the fact that litterally anything can be questioned to the point of apparent "doubt".

305 posted on 04/11/2005 5:35:59 PM PDT by narby
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To: Dimensio

The last poll I saw was over 65% but since I don't remember where, I'll defer to your numbers. Scientists disagree on many things, which I'm sure you know, but do they call each other ignorant? Probably. Most scientists seem to be quite rigid. The thing about the evolution/creationism debate is that we won't know for sure until we're dead. Doesn't seem fair, does it?


306 posted on 04/11/2005 5:51:38 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: Dimensio
Ah. So you make excuses to cover up your complete and total lack of facts.

Wait...Just because I don't show you the facts I have gathered doesn't mean I don't have any.

The facts are I have not shown you any facts to support my claim yet, but I will advise you to be careful with your theory...just like your theory of evolution.

You may have some facts, but you can not possibly have the whole picture...especially when you completely ignor some historical constructs.

307 posted on 04/11/2005 5:57:25 PM PDT by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: everyone

There is a lesson here. As in most controversies, or perhaps all controversies, the liberal-left Establishment simply isn't interested in dialogue. They are, fundamentally, tyrants and bullies. The sooner we recognize and SAY THIS, SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS EVERY DAY, the better.


308 posted on 04/11/2005 5:59:34 PM PDT by California Patriot
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To: Ichneumon

The recent confirmation of the evolution of cetecans from artiodactyls is one of the most perfect and beautiful examples of how science actually works. It should eventually become a part of every biology textbook, the way it brings together morphology, paleonotology, genetics and molecular biology into one seamless consilience of inductions, and the way it shows the drama of how theory and experiment interact in the scientific process.


309 posted on 04/11/2005 6:00:35 PM PDT by RightWingAtheist (Creationism is not conservative!)
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To: mdmathis6
A scientific journal, even one for the layman such as Scientific American, is not a place for religious discussion. Unless physical evidence for a deity can be produced and verified, religion cannot be inserted into any scientific research. Remember, science is concerned with the verifiable (either through evidence or through reproduction of results).
310 posted on 04/11/2005 6:00:56 PM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: VadeRetro

We're not doing it for the luddite to whom we are replying. Such folks are beyond salvation. We're doing it for all the others out there.


311 posted on 04/11/2005 6:02:50 PM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: dmanLA
"Recent quotations," none later than 1987? Nothing from after the walking whales or the Chinese feathered dinosaurs?

Padded out with statements like this?

"I can envision observations and experiments that would disprove any evolutionary theory I know."?*Stephen Jay Gould, "Evolution as Fact and Theory," Discover 2(5):34-37 (1981).
Potential falsifiability is good. Gould is saying something good about evolution.

More genuinely recent quotes of Denton would reveal that he now accepts evolution. Those never seem to make it into these cretinist quote salads. How does that happen?

Poor old Colin Patterson. The creationists will still be twisting a few words they can use from him when all else of him is forgotten. Poor Douglas Futuyma! He's never said anything good about creation or bad about evolution, and still come ingenious idiot is trying to lump him in with the evo-skeptics. (This is simply dishonest.)

A generic dissection of the kind of fraud you have attempted here is on this web page. No one is fooled. You don't dismiss mountains of very real evidence against your position--the actual body of knowledge in biology, paleontology, etc.--with a few selected and twisted quotes.

312 posted on 04/11/2005 6:06:45 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: MacDorcha

What is "free will?" As best as I can figure it, it's a purely religious concept concerning man's ability to act independently of God. In a natural sense then, there is no such thing as "free will."


313 posted on 04/11/2005 6:09:01 PM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: RightWingAtheist
The recent confirmation of the evolution of cetecans from artiodactyls is one of the most perfect and beautiful examples of how science actually works.

Care to explain that? You do realize that Thewissen, who found the artiodactyl evidence, still does not really accept the molecular evidence.

The new pakicetid data indicate that the third branching diagram, the artiodactyl hypothesis, describes the relationships of cetaceans best.Thewissen writes.

This is what the molecular evidence has continuously shown with respect to hippos(heidi), whales(celia), and the other artiodactyls(arlene).


314 posted on 04/11/2005 6:14:23 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: dmanLA
Are you new to these threads? Creationist misquote salads get brought up by newbies who never research their origins or their context. Invariably, the quotes in question are (A) actually pulled in such a manner that completely misrepresents what was actually said, or (B) comes from an anti-evolutionist posing as an evolutionist. If you really want to know the provenence of your quotes, you should go to the Quote Mine Project. You'll find most of your quotes have already been covered.
315 posted on 04/11/2005 6:20:49 PM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: AndrewC
So I suppose you're going to mention that more recent paleontological evidence supports the origin of hippos from the anthracotheres, also in line with the molecular evidence? No, actually, I don't suppose you are going to do that. But I know you were on the thread. Funny, that.
316 posted on 04/11/2005 6:22:15 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Junior
It's more for the Lurkers (more for the Lurkers) Hear the old canards the creos say (more for the Lurkers) I begin posting (more for the Lurkers) Till I feel a paradigm shift my way I feel a paradigm shifting my way.

BWAHAHAHAHAAA!!

Youve driven me mad with this Junior!!

Youll appreciate this geeky science humor: The other day I was looking for a pharmacological inhibitor of the protein Rho Kinase (called ROCK). I went up to a coworker with air guitar in hand and belted out "I WANNA ROCK....inhibitor!"

317 posted on 04/11/2005 6:25:54 PM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: MacDorcha
Define "information." Would a self-replicating molecule contain "information?"

BTW, "dead matter" implies the matter was living at one time. The proper term might be "non-living matter" but at the very fringes of what is considered "life" even this gets a little fuzzy.

318 posted on 04/11/2005 6:26:24 PM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: mlc9852; Dimensio
(CBS) Americans do not believe that humans evolved, and the vast majority says that even if they evolved, God guided the process. Just 13 percent say that God was not involved. But most would not substitute the teaching of creationism for the teaching of evolution in public schools.

Poll:Creationism Trumps Evolution

If you believe in polls.

More from that link.

There are also differences between voters who supported Kerry and those who supported Bush: 47 percent of John Kerry’s voters think God created humans as they are now, compared with 67 percent of Bush voters.... the number considering both groups was 55% for no evolution.

I'm just the messenger here.

319 posted on 04/11/2005 6:26:45 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: RightWingNilla
Boston! I get it! (Now how do I get it out?)
320 posted on 04/11/2005 6:27:22 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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