Militant Atheism And 'Nonpersons' As Natural Resources

In "Mere Christianity," CS Lewis described how he came to believe in the God of the Bible by virtue of reason. Over a period of years, Lewis examined evidence for God and concluded that it simply made sense to believe in His existence. Thus it was neither emotion nor superstition that led him to God, but reason and logic. In other words, his faith in God was arrived at by virtue of how much sense it all made to him. Christianity answered all of his questions, such as why we're here, our purpose in life, what's wrong with this world, and where we go after we leave this life.

As he looked back upon his former 'unbelief,' he realized that it had been the result of pride, emotions, and imagination, and that it had nothing to do with reason and logic after all. He concluded that: "The battle is between faith and reason on one side and emotion and imagination on the other."

It's precisely these things: virulent hatred of God and Judao-Christianity, pride (towering self-conceit), out-of-control emotions, imagination (wishful thinking), and the seductive allure of a particular 'idea' that are the common denominators running beneath and through America's Left. As a force united, they birthed an unholy army of mankind-hating demoniacs armed with 'will to power' who have unleashed a Hellish maelstrom of madness, hatred, and destruction upon America.

Out of this seething pustule of poison emerged a two-headed hydra: a mankind despising coalition of Mengeles-type 'gods' who call themselves secular human bio-ethicists and animal rights activists.These haters of mankind envision a utopianist 'garden of eden' world that doesn't include most of 'us,' the ones they refer to so disparagingly as 'nonpersons."

These self ordained human 'gods' are adherents to Nietzsche's blood soaked nightmarish philosophy wherein he had declared...(quote)"God (is) dead......How shall we, the murderers of all murderers comfort ourselves? Must not we ourselves become gods to seem worthy of it?....the heroic individualist is no longer bound to a traditional 'slave morality," but is creating his own rules." (end quote)

What was it that led to Nietzsche's triumphant declaration? It was a provocatively seductive 'idea.' That idea was Darwin's theory of evolution, which became the depraved growth medium from which grew a new and militant atheism that devalued all values and degraded mankind to being nothing more than an accidental collision between nonintelligence-bearing matter. Thus mankind became, in the minds of madmen, something lower and baser than beasts. No longer must these 'beasts' be seen as having any intrinsic worth.

Human worth or lack of it, could now be determined by mankind's new slavemaster 'human gods." And because Darwin's "idea" had given them the green light to rid the human species of 'useless eaters' and other 'undesirables,' militant atheists embarked upon a bloodbath unlike anything ever before witnessed in this world. In their power-crazed bloodlust they have thus far exterminated over one hundred million human beings. And they are not done yet.

The ability to possess this aberrant power was what Nietzsche referred to when he jubilantly declared himself to be free from God's 'slave morality, which was his way of saying "sanctity of life," and God's other moral laws. Nietzsche himself predicted the outcome of his atheism on the world: (quote) "I am not a man, I am dynamite.....my truth is fearful; it is in the past we called lies the truth. The concept of politics is completely taken up in a war of the spirits, all the structures of power are blown up...for they are based on the lie. There will be wars of a kind that have never happened on the earth." (end quote)

Nietzsche was proclaiming that with God dead, not only did human life no longer have meaning, purpose, or value but neither did the Christian-Judao principles on which Western civilization had been built Christian-Judao moral principles and God's laws are the things he called 'lies.' Hence his 'devaluation of all values' declaration, which means in context, that all distinctions between right and wrong and justice and injustice are dead. No longer does there exist any objective standards. All that exists is the 'will to power" ruthlessly wielded by selfworshipping megalomaniacs who see themselves as being the world's 'philosopher kings" and 'gods" while simultaneously, the rest of mankind becomes reduced to being putty in the hands of these sadistic monsters.

This brings us to America's secular human bio-ethicists and animal rights activists who believe they are genetically superior to the rest of us. Thus, to their arrogant minds, it's only fitting that they have the power to determine who is a 'person' and who is not. This determination is made according to their own 'moral laws,' which are as changeable as their feelings.

One thing both secular human bio-ethicists and their animal rights cohorts are in agreement on is that simply by being a member of the human species, the human animal is not automatically accorded intrinsic worth. Hence it makes a twisted sort of sense that they are debating the merits of conferring 'personhood' on animals, whom they in their demented minds, refer to as 'nonhuman' persons.

Mankind's new 'gods' have also agreed to reject 'person' status for the unborn, newborns, people with dementia, the severely brain damaged, and any who do not measure up to their 'moral' standards. They believe the human creature must earn its moral and legal rights by displaying certain cognitive capacities.

Yet another proposal being discussed is whether to use cognitively disabled people as a source for organ harvesting. The terminology used in referrence to the mentally impaired was "natural resource." But why stop with organs? If these 'nonpersons" can be viewed as 'natural resources" for the harvesting of organs, then why not for eyes, blood, and skin as well? If they are no longer human and not deserving of life, then why not strip their bodies of parts just as junker cars are stripped of theirs ?

John Harris, the Sir David Alliance professor of bioethics at the University of Manchester, England, stated: "it is necessary to establish criteria for personhood so as to identify those sorts of individuals who have the highest moral value......(it should be a) life of such quality as to bring individuals into the same moral categories as ourselves.....exploration of who is a person must include animals.... " Tom L. Beauchamp, co-author of one of the most influential bioethics textbooks, "Principles Of Biomedical Ethics," declared: "it is safe to assume that a creature is a moral person if....(1) it is capable of making moral judgements about rightness and wrongness of actions, (2) it has motives that can be judged morally."

Bear in mind that these conceited 'gods' are speaking of us as 'creatures' and 'its' and that the moral values they refer to are of their own devising. It's obvious that they're speaking of creating a 'superior race.' Those of us not deemed 'moral' will either be humanely starved, used as 'parts' factories, or perhaps we will serve as slaves in their much fantasized about paradise?

From "Roots Of Human Resistance To Animal Rights: Psychological And Conceptual Blocks," Steven J. Bartlett, 2002, we have this exalted 'wisdom:' "Throughout.....history, nonhuman animals have had no rights. Scholars have distinguished two....reasons for this.....both are homocentric. One has a theological basis, the other is a secular expression of species pride." Mankind's 'sin,' according to these insane 'gods' is homocentrism, born out of 'specieism' and of belief in that despotic anthropological God of the Bible who placed the human species above all other species.

The 'sin' of homocentrism is defined as "the exhaltation of the human species by directing attention to uniquely human characteristics." Homocentric 'nonpersons' are guilty of committing "human-level narcissism,' 'genetic selfishness,' and 'conceptual pathology' as well as being 'parasites' in relation to the world's ecosystems. How hateful, unfair, and discriminatory is that, I ask you? We need to repent and atone for our sins by allowing our 'betters' to humanely euthanize us out of existence right away!

Among legal luminaries of the 'nonhuman animal persons' equality movement are civil rights attorney Alan Dershowitz and Constitutional law attorney, Lawrence Tribe, the guy who representeded Gore against Bush in the 2000 election. Tribe believes that there should be no "insistent reference to human interests," at the expense of "plant and animal life and things of beauty." We need "biological modesty on the part of man to acknowledge that his species has no intrinsically superior value..."

Dershowitz, "Animal rights or animal legal courses.....(are) being taught.....in something like 26 US law schools, and more being added every year......we are also seeing chapters of animal rights law in.....(some)state bar associations.....as well as......within the American Bar Association..." (end quote)

Just as with Nietzsche, all of these atheist secular human 'gods' and 'philosopher kings' ground their mankind-hating reasoning in Darwinian theory. To them, the difference between species is not one of distinct categories, but simply one of degree. And there is absolutely nothing in this degree of difference that justifies the human species as having dominion over the other species, or over the earth. In other words: "How dare homocentric 'nonintelligence-bearing matter" expect to have a right to life?!?" Your life is no longer sacred. Your God is "dead" and your 'new gods' do not give you an automatic right to life.

In the Hastings Center Report, 1993, Daniel Callahan, one of the founding fathers of bioethics, made it ominously clear whose purpose bioethicists serve "...the final factor of great importance in bioethics success was the emergence, ideologically, of a form of bioethics that dovetails nicely with the reigning political liberalism of the educated classes in America." (end quote)

Just as the poison of socialism has managed to thoroughly infect America from top-to-bottom, so too have these secular human Mengeles infested America. They've become among society's most influential members. They sit on federal and state public policy commissions; they author health codes; condition the minds of America's next generation of doctors, lawyers, business leaders, and govenment policy makers; they are HMO consultants;they are employed as directors of nursing home and hospital ethics committees where they decide matters such as when to withhold treatment from premature babies, stroke patients, etc. They are called upon to serve as expert witnesses; create the 'do's and don'ts' of organ procurement, and serve as overseers of medical experimentation on human beings.

Pinnelas County, where Terri Shiavo was "humanely starved' has a nest of these vipers.

(quote) "......the essential vice, the utmost evil, is Pride....it was through Pride that the devil became the devil: Pride leads to every other vice; it is the complete anti-God state of mind." (end quote) ~~~~CS Lewis, "Mere Christianity"

Pride is a vice that afflicts everyone to some degree or another. But in some people, pride is of such towering proportions that it manifests itself in diabolical ways. And when someone's overblown conceit of himself and his own ideas leads him to view his fellow man as though he were nothing but, "its, creatures, nonpersons, and natural resources," then pride has demented his mind and become diabolical. Evil has taken total possession of his mind and soul and he has become a danger to us all.

So far they are treading lightly for fear of discovery. Despite their dementia and the state of denial they wrap themselves in, they do know how wicked their intentions towards us are which is why they are doing their utmost to operate under the radar. Therefore, let us use the power of the internet to expose them and their evil schemes to the light of day. Inform everyone in your family and all who are your friends. Spread the word far and wide. Truth and exposure to them is as Black Flag is to filthy roaches.

Aleksandr Solszhenitsyn said of their kind: "They flee from Christ like devils from the sign of the cross."

3..Michigan State Univ. College of Law: Animal Legal and Historical Web Center, "Roots of Human Resistance To Animal Rights: Psychological and Conceptual Blocks"

4..Association of American Medical Colleges Reporter: "Personhood' Redefined: Animal Rights Strategy Gets At The Essence"

Copyright 2005 The Sierra Times Permission to reprint/republish granted, as long as you include the name of our site, the author, and our URL. www.SierraTimes.com All Sierra Times news reports, and all editorials are © 2003 SierraTimes.com (unless otherwise noted) SierraTimes.com™ A Subsidiary of J.J. Johnson Enterprises, Inc. http://www.sierratimes.com/05/04/03/209_240_205_63_97396.htm

"The author expressly referred to "militant atheists." If you are one of those, then accept the shoe, for it fits you. If you are not one of those, then why are you interjecting your personal feelings into this?"

Hmm, I could answer your question by pointing out that this was (is) an inflammatory, hyperbolic article based upon nothing but artificially constructed strawmen, and thus ripe for the interjection of personal opinion, considering personal opinion is the only basis for the author's assertions and leave it at that, but I won't.

Let me point out that although you claim that the article references only "militant atheists," it begins by setting up a structure clearly delineating atheists from Christians, and thus wipes out any notion that the author is referring to "militant" atheists only. Please also note that the author never bothers to name or otherwise identify these "militant atheists."

Let me also point out that the author has constructed both the shoe and the "militant atheist" that it is supposed to fit out of whole cloth, thus the allegedly perfect fit.

And finally, as far as my interjection of my personal opinion...this is a message board, designed for such. If you don't like people expressing their opinions on the articles you choose to post, I suggest that you cease posting articles.

Why is it not clear what the truth is if there is only one truth?

First, there is only one Truth, but it is so large compared to our ability to comprehend it, that we tend to break it into human intellect sized chunks. For example, right now in Paris France a woman labors to give birth to a child. I don't know her name or her age, or her religion or her height or her hair color or whether her baby is a boy or a girl or twins. But the fact that I don't know these things in no way affects the fact that right now in Paris France a woman labors to birth a child.

In a similar light, your wanting to know "The Truth" is not possible because your mind cannot encompass it all (that's not an insult, no one's can). So it is with different Christian denominations. All share the basic framework, but the nitty gritty details come down to matters of interpretation from the Bible, and are ideally fully understood with inspiration from the Holy Spirit.

But what if they aren't? What if you just think a certain passage means a certain thing. What if God is referring to the leaves on a tree, but your looking at the bark? Does that mean He is wrong or contradictory? No, it just means that your understanding is imperfect. These imperfections can be magnified by other human frailties until there appears to be quite a divergence between the beliefs of one group and another.

Take Mormonism for example. They believe that John Smith found Holy Scripture in a cave (in Virginia I think). The traditional Bible doesn't mention it, but it doesn't say it isn't so either. Momons also believe that polygamy is a perfectly reasonable lifestyle. Catholics go apoplectic over polygamy. Which is right?

The mormons point to the old testament and show examples of otherwise Godly men shacking up with lots of women. Catholics point to the 10 Commandments and "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery". For most of us, making the determination of who is "right" the Mormons or the Catholics, is simply beyond our cognitive power. First, none of us have all the facts (for example, what was God's definition of the Hebrew word "Adultery" at that time? I don't have a clue, do you?). Even the written records left behind were written by men.

One passage in the Bible in the King James version speaks of God "repenting" that he made man. The NIV bible in the same passage says that God was "grieved" that he made man. Which is it? Those words mean very different things, and I suspect that God's true meaning isn't either of them.

These are errors and uncertainties introduced by fallible humans. Since it is not possible for you or I to make a rock solid determination (because of lack of fact and knowledge), we rely on others who have made their life's work studying it (learning more fact, acquiring deeper knowledge). What if we listen to the wrong guy? Does that mean we are evil in God's eye? Well, actually it sort of does, but all that was taken care of by Christ. And that is all that is really important. All these other issues are just fodder to confuse that simple clarity. So one assumes (at least I assume) that a good, polygamist Mormon will go to Heaven just as easily as a good monogamous Catholic, if they both accept Christ. So why are we arguing about polygamy anyway?

Don't fall into the trap of demanding to understand all Truth before you'll believe any of it. That is a trap baited with pride. Take all you can, but you'll never be able to take all there is, or even a tiny sliver of all there is. (Stuff in my backyard still surprises me, how then will I comprehend the exquisite shape of that smaller canyon on Jupiter's moon Europa? Can you claim with certainty that such a canyon does not exist?) And if you cannot take all there is, there will be some things you don't understand or may be in error about. But none of those errors should cause you to obscure the basic features of the Truth, just like a boat moored in a marina in Myrtle Beach does not obscure the basic outline of North America. If all you can see is that North America is this really big Island, that may be enough.

In what way then is your moral authority superior to an atheist if you cannot be sure?

The atheist does not perceive even the gross features of spirituality, or, if he does percieve them he pretends that he does not (see "pride" above). In his case, the boat does obscure North America and he doesn't even see a really big island, he sees something else. Often his "something else" is a great yawning nothing else, afterall, he's an atheist. I can be sure that there is a really big island behind the boat even if I don't know its name or its size or whether it has a place called Montana inside it.

Finally, my moral authority governs only myself. I do not sit in judgement of others - here again we fall to definition.

If I say "I disapprove of homosexuality and I believe it is wrong" I am not being judgemental. To judge someone is to both condemn him (I believe you stole that fruit pie) and to apply sanction (therefore I'm going to punch you). You cannot be judgemental of another unless you apply sanction. I do not apply sanction, therefore I am not judgemental. And my choosing to not associate with someone does not rise to the level of sanction, nor does me making my opinion known (by voting for example). Here is fertile grounds for more word games, the only purpose of which is to obscure and confuse those people desperately squinting to see through the fog.

If you truly do think God exists what is the point of worrying about those who don't?.....

Well if you care about your fellow man you do not want them to spend an eternity in hell apart from the forgiveness found only in the crucified one, Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Extreme atheist are not usually content to just mind their own business on their way to hell but seem driven to influence others against a belief in the True and Living God so others spend an eternity in hell as well. Generally they are not content to be immoral themselves but insist under penalty of the law that I agree with them and even extol them. They do not realize it but they are actually under the control of the enemy of God who is Satan and his legions who often can use them like puppets to reek all kinds of evil and destroy our country under the weight of the immorality they unwittingly force upon society on a whole. When the line is followed out to the end Christians become bait for the wicked because the devil hates both Christians and Jews because he hates our God who he knows will eventually destroy him. As society crumbles you end up with communism, Nazism or some equally murderous regime that kill or enslave thousands of Christians and/or Jews (not to mention also anyone else who opposes them) to try to eradicate our belief in God. The wicked are not content with live and let live but always must digress to live and let anyone who opposes them and their desire to rule over them to we live and you must die. You must bow down to us and whatever government we have created to rule over you. They end up demanding complete and absolute worship of some individual or government system or both. Check out history under Germany, Russia, Cuba, China, Muslim countries etc. and you will see that this is what happens. People need to believe in and obey God to remain free. (Many hate the idea of obeying God and living moral lives as he defines right and wrong. It is call being rebellious.) Jesus Christ comes to bring life and to bring it more abundantly. Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy. It is when Christians forget that there is a huge spiritual battle going on for the souls of all the people of the world and just sit back and live and let live that evil marches on fast, determined and strong to conquer in the name of communism, occultism, homosexuality, feminism, atheism, Islamism, materialism, idol worship, or some other unGodly banner. Nature abhors a vacuum and when people forget the True and Living God and obeying his Word something will fill in the place and it will not be good.

It sure would be nice to live in a world where we didn't have to care but if we don't death and destruction will reign. The Bible says that when Jesus comes back with 10 thousands of his saints (Christians being raptured out just before the antiChrist comes into power with a false peace that will turn into horror), he will come back just in time to save the world from complete annihilation at the hands of the evil, Godless antiChrist and his government. Man is not capable of governing himself or countries without the wisdom, love and reign of God over our souls. We are dependent on the Living God for everything good, for everything good comes from him. History will prove this out. It is interesting because the end looks near and it is likely that those who are refusing to worship the Living God will end up worshiping but it will be the antiChrist or die.

Agree or disagree: "Evangelism is wrong."<.i> Yes, when you are evangelising human souls into eternal hell through the lie that there is no God. And once again what is the point if you are an atheist and you believe that there is no God to get other people to believe it to. Also being an agnostic is understandable but really how can you know that there is no God???? Extreme atheist are sure of what they cannot know. Is it because they do not want there to be a God? How do you know that God has not revealed himself to others and not to those who chose to not believe in his existence without ever really wanting to find out if he really exists? The Bible says that it is because they love their sin that they refuse to come to the light and from my experience I can see that this is true (scripture is always true rather I understand it or not).
> Generally they are not content to be immoral themselves but insist under penalty of the law that I agree with them and even extol them.

Wow. Do you honestly believe that?

Once again you would have to be blind to history to not agree with this. Do you have any idea how many Christians and Jews were killed by the communist countries because there law said Christianity was/is against the law. Renounce your belief in God or die. Today much of what you buy that says made in China is made by the slave labor of Christians who will not renounce their faith in Christ. The law says their worship is illegal. Many, many, many have died. Look at the immoral homosexual community. If you speak against the practice it is suppose to hate speech and penalized under the law. They do not only want the freedom to practice immorality but they want everybody to extol it. The atheist want to wipe out any mention of God in public places completely misinterpreting the constitution and making up a separation of church and state. Under their creed all speech including the worst child pornography should be protected under the law but it should be illegal to speak of God or pray in public places. The assault on the freedom of Christian speech and action has only just begun if God hating atheist and those that shun the morality of the Bible have there way. It is a spiritual battle that many very nice and naive Christians are just beginning to realize and possibly too late. History and the present time is full of murderous groups of people. Do you live in a pretty, pink plastic world where love is supreme and given half a chance wickedness will not reign and reign horribly? How many nice German people and their allies under the right set of circumstances became monsters. The human heart is capable of unbelievable horror upon others given the right set of circumstances. Have you follow what has been happening in Africa? Millions of Christians have been murdered and are being murdered today and also being made into slaves. Often they are being murdered in ways to horrible to think about. Many Christians are in prisons that are so horrible that they defy the imagination today in North Korea where it is against the law to believe in God. They get treated as the worst criminals in prisons where existence is a day to day quest. If you believe that these things will never happen in the USA just because we are the USA you do not understand what human nature is capable of and human nature is the same everywhere unfettered by the morality of the Christian God. That is not to say that all who call themselves Christians are, many know not the God of the Bible and have not his Spirit but have only some empty creed. Much of the horror that is going on in the world today against Christians goes largely unreported by a media that polls say are largely atheist. The death of a Christian hardly matters to them, if at all.

In reading the rest of your screed, it seems that you do. How odd. What it must be to live in such hate and anger is beyond me.. The usual rant of an atheist. Accuse the Christian of hate and anger. Hardly. I am a realist who knows that the world lies in the grips of an evil force whose weapons are lies. The stake of the battle are souls. Your soul to be exact, also. I am like a doctor who knows you have a cancer called unbelief and if I am not honest you will have no chance of taking care of it and living, not just for this life time but for an eternity. You are at risk of having to go to a place of total separation from the God of everything good that you probably take for granted and have not taken the time or thought to thank him for. Hell is not a place I hope for you to go to or other people who are caught up in unbelief and often gross immortality. The greatest sin is to deny the God that created you and to trample on the blood of his son Jesus Christ. He gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. The thing about a true Christian is that though we recognize the depravity of any sinner apart from the saving grace of Jesus Christ we love everyone and forgive all who sin against us. We pray that people everywhere will be saved. A true Christian is humble and not proud because we know that we are saved by grace or unmerited favor from God and that because of our sins we too deserve to go to hell but through what Jesus Christ has done for us we have been saved. We understand that we are not any better than anyone else but that we have been saved because we have excepted the free gift of salvation and we hope and pray for others to see the truth and come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. If you want to call that hate and anger just don't do it out of disingenuous. Think about it, don't just react in the same old, knee jerk, prescribed ways.

Agree or disagree: "Evangelism is wrong."

Yes, when you are evangelising human souls into eternal hell through the lie that there is no God. And once again what is the point if you are an atheist and you believe that there is no God to get other people to believe it too. Also being an agnostic is understandable but really how can you know that there is no God???? Extreme atheist are sure of what they cannot know. Is it because they do not want there to be a God? How do you know that God has not revealed himself to others and not to those who chose to not believe in his existence without ever really wanting to find out if he really exists? The Bible says that it is because they love their sin that they refuse to come to the light and from my experience I can see that this is true (scripture is always true rather I understand it or not).

.....Generally they are not content to be immoral themselves but insist under penalty of the law that I agree with them and even extol them.....

Wow. Do you honestly believe that?

Once again you would have to be blind to history to not agree with this. Do you have any idea how many Christians and Jews were killed by the communist countries because their law said Christianity was/is against the law. Renounce your belief in God or die. Today much of what you buy that says made in China is made by the slave labour of Christians who will not renounce their faith in Christ. The law says their worship is illegal. Many, many, many have died. Look at the immoral homosexual community. If you speak against the practice it is suppose to be hate speach and penalized under the law. They do not only want the freedom to practice immorality but they want everybody to extol it. The atheist want to wipe out any mention of God in public places completely misinterpreting the constitution and making up a seperation of church and state. Under their creed all speech including the worst child pronography should be protected under the law but it should be illegal to speak of God or pray in public places. The assult on the freedom of Christian speech and action has only just begun if God hating atheist and those that shun the morality of the Bible have their way. It is a spiritual battle that many very nice and naive Christians are just beginning to realize and possibly too late. History and the present time is full of murderous groups of people. Do you live in a pretty, pink plastic world where love is supreme and given half a chance wickedness will not reign and reign horribly? How many nice German people and their allies under the right set of circumstances became monsters. The human heart is capable of unbelievable horror upon others given the right set of circumstances. Have you follow what has been happening in Africa? Millions of Christians have been murdered and are being murdered today and also being made into slaves. Often they are being murdered in ways too horrible to think about. Many Christians are in prisons that are so horrible that they defy the imagination today in North Korea where it is against the law to believe in God. They get treated as the worst criminals in prisons where existence is a day to day quest. If you believe that these things will never happen in the USA just because we are the USA you do not understand what human nature is capable of and human nature is the same everywhere unfettered by the morality of the Christian God. That is not to say that all who call themselves Christians are, many know not the God of the Bible and have not his Spirit but have only some empty creed. Much of the horror that is going on in the world today against Christians goes largely unreported by a media that polls say are largely atheist. The death of a Christian hardly matters to them, if at all.

In reading the rest of your screed, it seems that you do. How odd. What it must be to live in such hate and anger is beyond me.

The usual rant of an atheist. Accuse the Christian of hate and anger. Hardly. I am a realist who knows that the world lies in the grips of an evil force whose weapons are lies. The stake of the battle are souls. Your soul to be exact, also. I am like a doctor who knows you have a cancer called unbelief and if I am not honest you will have no chance of taking care of it and living, not just for this life time but for an eternity. You are at risk of having to go to a place of total separation from the God of everything good that you probably take forgranted and have not taken the time or thought to thank him for. Hell is not a place I hope for you to go to or other people who are caught up in unbelief and often gross immoratlity. The greatest sin is to deny the God that created you and to trample on the blood of his son Jesus Christ. He gave his only begotten son that whosoever bebieves in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. The thing about a true Christian is that though we recognize the deprevity of any sinner apart from the saving grace of Jesus Christ we love everyone and forgive all who sin against us. We pray that people everywhere will be saved. A true Christian is humble and not proud because we know that we are saved by grace or unmerited favor from God and that because of our sins we too deserve to go to hell but through what Jesus Christ has done for us we have been saved. We understand that we are not any better than anyone else but that we have been saved because we have excepted the free gift of salvation and we hope and pray for others to see the truth and come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. If you want to call that hate and anger just don't do it out of disingenunous. Think about it, don't just react in the same old, knee jerk, prescribed ways.

orionblamblam: Please read this one as the other one went through before I proofed it. This one may come up twice because it did not show up on the thread and I went back and hit the post botton again. Very sorry for the confusion.Hope this one goes through.

Agree or disagree: "Evangelism is wrong."

.....Generally they are not content to be immoral themselves but insist under penalty of the law that I agree with them and even extol them.....

Wow. Do you honestly believe that?

In reading the rest of your screed, it seems that you do. How odd. What it must be to live in such hate and anger is beyond me.

>> Agree or disagree: "Evangelism is wrong."

> Yes, when you are evangelising human souls into eternal hell through the lie that there is no God.

A God who reserves a Hell for those who do not believe in him will cast *anyone* into Hell, especially those who *do* believe in him, as that is an evil thing to do.

> And once again what is the point if you are an atheist and you believe that there is no God to get other people to believe it too.

Atheists are no different than any other people. They try to correct what they see as wrong ideas.

> The Bible says that it is because they love their sin ...

Thus demonstratign that the Bible is not always right. The bulk of the atheists I've known are atheists because that's what they truly believe, not as a way to justify sin.... and they've been, on the whole, a better-behaved and more moral group than the believers.

>> Do you honestly believe that?

>Once again you would have to be blind to history to not agree with this.

Hogwash. "Generally they are not content to be immoral themselves but insist under penalty of the law that I agree with them and even extol them." Ask the numerous atheists on FR is this is true of them. Most atheists are not immoral. Most atheists do not want laws forcing you to agree with them and even extol them.

Opinions like that yours it impossible to reason with you.

Again, what do you care? You seem to know that you've got an eternal
future of enforced bliss heading your way; to hell with everyone else!

Just humor me. Try to imagine, "ETERNAL TORMENT".
Surely you've had some kind of pain in your life, physical or emotional.
Imagine that pain going on and on, and never ending, EVER.
Now multiply that pain by 10,000.
That's the Lake of Fire.
It was created for rebellious spirits, not for man.
But the Word of God tells us that that is where the majority of mankind
will spend eternity

Now, why do I care?
I wouldn't want my worse enemy to spend one second there, much less all
eternity, and nobody has to.
Christ's shed blood can keep anyone, and everyone who is willing,
not only out of the Lake of Fire, but into His presence forever!
That's what His Word says, and He can't lie.

Ah. By that I can take it that you believe that having the meaning in your
life handed to you is more fulfilling than you going out and making it yourself,
then? What a glitteringly leftist viewpoint.

I'm about as far right as you can get without falling off the spectrum.

Again, what do you care? You seem to know that you've got an eternal
future of enforced bliss heading your way; to hell with everyone else!

I'm about as far right as you can get without falling off the spectrum.

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