Living with Islam: The new Dutch model? Beseiged Netherlands Turns Hard Right

The Economist ^ | Mar 31, 2005 | Staff

[Mongeaux]

Increasingly, the Netherlands wonders whether diversity is always desirable.

For people who see themselves as the front line in an uncertain struggle to defend western civilisation—a struggle, moreover, which has already cost some lives—the cultural warriors of the Netherlands have a surprising spring in their step. “I see developments in the Arab world as very promising,” says Paul Scheffer, a journalist who is one of the leaders of an ideological movement that wants to counter Islamist extremism by putting more emphasis on the rule of law and less on accommodating differences.

Taking his cue from America's political right, he hails the fact that in some Middle Eastern countries ordinary people have challenged old elites and theocracies. In Europe, he reckons, traditional leaders who presume to speak for Muslim immigrants have it too easy, because governments pander to them out of a misplaced respect for cultural diversity.

[Mongeaux]

More Dutchmen are emigrating out of The Netherlands than are coming in. Dutch is disappearing as the primary language in public schools as muslim emigres fill them up. In some urban areas, until very recently, well over half the men of Moroccan origin over the age of 40 were living on social security and had little expectation of working

[John Thornton]

In some urban areas, until very recently, well over half the men of Moroccan origin over the age of 40 were living on social security and had little expectation of working

Not working? But I thought they only came to do the jobs the Dutch didn't want to do?

[Mongeaux]

That statement has an unfortunately "Leni Riefenstahl-ish" quality to it, so I can't agree. Muslims are people, not animals to be exterminated. The issue Europeans are trying to cope with is - how do they integrate these folks, or at least how do they keep them out? Muslims fleeing their own self-created hellholes could easily replicate them in their host countries.

The European brand of Socialist Multiculturalism is obviously inadequate to this task. We ought to thank Muslims for showing it up so badly.

[joesnuffy]

Paul Scheffer, a journalist who is one of the leaders of an ideological movement that wants to counter Islamist extremism by putting more emphasis on the rule of law and less on accommodating differences.

Yes what all black robed usurpers want...more emphasis on the 'rule of law' aka rule by jurists

Why the jurists don't mind the takeover of their nation by Muslim thugs, other illegal aliens and criminals

This will necessitate a nation ruled by judges...

Thesis-antithesis-synthesis

Social Change through crisis management (orchestrated crisis and advance planned management of the crisis)

Why don't they simply round up all the illegals and terror groups...deport them ..and keep out all others from invading?

Why not simply make Islam illegal in their land..tear down all the mosques, Islamic centers and forbid them to buy up tracts of land for their training camps?

Stop the passive agressive invasion in it's tracts before they are in position to take them over without firing a shot?

Their leaders are helpless 'by the rule of law' to do so no doubt...

That's ok because they will wait and wait and wait until the criminal crisis is so grave...the people so polarized and angry they will accept another mistachioed uber leader

And trade away all their freedom for safety

imo

[Gunslingr3]

More Dutchmen are emigrating out of The Netherlands than are coming in.

How can a Dutchman emigrate TO his country of origin? Wouldn't more American emigrate out of the U.S. than come in? How could that not be the case with any nation?

[Socratic]

"How can a Dutchman emigrate TO his country of origin?"

Someone's in a good mood today! ;-)

[Salgak]

LightCrusader wrote:

Muslims are people, not animals to be exterminated.

Are you sure about that ? They seem to think about us that way, why not return the favor ?

[Mongeaux]

More Dutchmen are emigrating out of The Netherlands than are coming in.

How can a Dutchman emigrate TO his country of origin? Wouldn't more American emigrate out of the U.S. than come in? How could that not be the case with any nation?

Oops, that doesn't make sense does it? What I meant was - Dutch are leaving and not coming back. Witness this emigre posting at

http://dalythoughts.com/index.php?p=2851

As an affluent, well educated Dutch emigrant (to the UK, in my case), I feel I’m entitled to comment. Islamic immigration is the catalyst, but not the root cause of this white flight. What all of the emigrants quoted have in common is a desire to move to quieter, safer, cleaner countries, places where traditional quiet virtues of civility and common decency are still held in high regard.

[BobL]

"Muslims are people, not animals to be exterminated."

Replace "Muslims" with "Klansmen" and then ask whether the answer is the same. In the case of Klansmen, everyone is (rightfully) tarnished because of guilt by association. If you join the Klan, given its leadership and policies, you are a racist. So why give Muzzies a free pass when they cheer things like 9-11?

[Billthedrill]

The problem isn't really unassimilated minorities - the Netherlands (and the rest of Europe) has a long history of those. The problem here is an unassimilating minority that has arrogated to its members immunity from the laws of its host country and has sanctioned violence against that country's people.

The United States has a number of unassimilated religious minorities - the Amish, the Mennonites, the Quakers - but these do not commit acts of aggression against their fellow citizens (rather the opposite when it happens, which is rare). This is a healthy and perfectly benign diversity. It is neither healthy nor benign to allow a respect for diversity, the abstraction, to interfere with the protection each citizen enjoys under the law.

[spodefly]

BTTT

[Incorrigible]

Bump

[Mongeaux]

The problem isn't really unassimilated minorities - the Netherlands (and the rest of Europe) has a long history of those. The problem here is an unassimilating minority that has arrogated to its members immunity from the laws of its host country and has sanctioned violence against that country's people.

I agree, hence my statement "The issue Europeans are trying to cope with is - how do they integrate these folks, or at least how do they keep them out?

I suppose you could add a third dilemma: how do we get rid of the bad ones we already got?

I think deportation for the Clinkers and encouraged societal interaction for the "Moderate Muslims". Might work. What else you going to do? Put a bullet in all of their heads?

[monkeywrench]

I think he's speaking of the increasingly bitter reality.

[dagnabbit]

Every still-living Dutch Prime Minister since the 1970s should be in Prison for treason. They imported this fatal poison into their once-idyllic land.

[Billthedrill]

Well, the bullet is a temptation...

These communities are being terrorized themselves by the minority within the minority who actually commit the acts of violence, encourage them, and cover for the perpetrators. Eviction of the thugs under racketeering statutes strikes me as sound policy. Shooting them is only slightly less sound.

The state has had its warning. When the people start to take the law into their own hands it is generally because the state has declined to do so. I wish the Dutch the best with this, but it's a little late for hand-wringing.

[wesley_windam-price]

Too little and too late for the Dutch do-gooder-liberals. The best they can do is have a moratorium on immigration. Throwing in more $ and hope the problem will go away is about as effective as duck and cover. Europe is gone, say hello to Eurabia. Some French minister (don't remember the name) said that the issue that Muslims are incompatible with French society is something they cannot think of. They (French) have to find a way to get along with them. Can anyone say surrender in French? I think it's "j'abandonne".