GOP Crack-Up? Pardon My Guffaw (Mark Steyn: Republicans "Did the Right Thing" re: Schiavo)

Chicago Sun-Times ^ | 4/03/05 | Mark Steyn

[Tribune7]

I will not vote for Pubs.

They you're giving up. (I'm taking that to mean you won't vote for ANY Pubs)

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "They you're giving up. (I'm taking that to mean you won't vote for ANY Pubs)"

Funny you should say that. If I had said it about the democrats I doubt many would blame me. There is life after the GOP. You just have to believe me. Consider it a act of faith. The first step is to stop drinking the koolaide. I have no intention of giving up but I will not vote for people I have very serious doubts. The credibility of GOP politicians is very much in doubt. At least in my mind, you may have a different view and have come to a different conclusion. It is your right to do so, but it amazes me how many seem to consider it also their right to deny me mine. I might as well be standing in the middle of a bunch of demoncrats for all the difference it makes in regard to this matter.

There are third parties just as the GOP was once a third party. It isn't perfect but it will have to do until real progress is made in the GOP. More GOP Senators will not make a difference if they are not motivated to change a thing. Just as all the cries for better judges has a hollow sound to my ears. What good will that do when the judges the GOP picks turn out as bad as the Dims. They never seem to make the same mistakes. Either the GOP is incompetent or dishonest, you pick. Besides what incentive does the GOP offer the Judiciary to reform? Contempt of Congress charges? Cutting their budgets? Congressional hearings on abuse? Over ruling the Courts? Willful disobeying the Courts? Impeachment? What? what? what?

Absolute rule corrupts absolutely.
It applies to judges as well.

[ride the whirlwind]

Bumpety Bump.

[Tribune7]

If I had said it about the democrats I doubt many would blame me.

No, if fact I say that about Dems

There is life after the GOP. You just have to believe me.

Oh, I believe you

Consider it a act of faith.

It's an act of great faith.

The first step is to stop drinking the koolaide.

Now, what the heck does that mean?

I have no intention of giving up but I will not vote for people I have very serious doubts.

Neither will I but you are saying ALL Pubs which includes people like Delay & Santorum.

The credibility of GOP politicians is very much in doubt.

I look at the GOP as a means, not an end. There are a lot of weak, corrupt people who are Republicans.

It is your right to do so, but it amazes me how many seem to consider it also their right to deny me mine.

How is attempting to get you to change your view, denying you a right?

There are third parties just as the GOP was once a third party.

Third parties hurt conservatives. Think Ross Perot or Washington State.

More GOP Senators will not make a difference

More conservative senators will and even replacing radical leftist Dems with moderate Pubs will.

What good will that do when the judges the GOP picks turn out as bad as the Dims.

That's a point but the solution isn't third party. The solution is to pressure leglislatures to take on judges as they tried to with Terri's case.

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "Neither will I but you are saying ALL Pubs which includes people like Delay & Santorum."

Yes that is what I am saying. Less so with Delay but without a doubt Santorum has lost me. Are you forgetting the Specter nightmare? I can think of no better example of someone who stabs us in the back. Feel differently if you must, but real changes are required to persuade me.

Re: "How is attempting to get you to change your view, denying you a right?"

I was referring to many people not you in particular. You would have a better chance of succeeding if real substance was accomplished in the Congress and the White House. So far I only see lip service. People seem to think that is a viable substitute, it isn't. The GOP has wasted the last several years, are they going to continue to waste time in the next year and a half? If you want to jawbone someone try your GOP politician. If you succeed you will not need to "talk" me into anything I will beg to have the honor of voting GOP. However I fear most on some level know the GOP is not going to do a darn thing so they go the path of least resistance, jawbone folks like me. Don't waste your time.

Re: "Third parties hurt conservatives. Think Ross Perot or Washington State."

What conservatives are you talking about. Real one or those who play one on political ads? I do not believe they are real conservatives. Why don't you get this?

Re: To my "More GOP Senators will not make a difference"
You responded: "More conservative senators will and even replacing radical leftist Dems with moderate Pubs will."

?????? I can not figure out what you are trying to say. The problem as I see it is the politicians CLAIM to be conservative then do nothing other than engage in the same old corrupt practices that they were sent to reform. Abortion seems a scheme to shake down prolife groups for campaign contributions. Must not end the evil it will cut off the money making machine. Santorum is a great example of political calculations over moral values. You vote for him, I will not. All I see is lip service.

Re: "...the solution isn't third party. The solution is to pressure legislatures to take on judges as they tried to with Terri's case."

You have noticed she is dead, haven't you? There are things they can do but refuse. Things that do not have as high a bar as impeachment. Contempt of Congress not just a threat that is rescinded as soon as the bluff is called. I am so underwhelmed by their efforts. Be impressed if you must, I have higher expectations.

[knighthawk]

Ping

[Tribune7]

So far I only see lip service.

I don't. I see a tough fight and us winning battles that we would have lost 20 years ago.

Think Ross Perot . . .What conservatives are you talking about.

The ones who would have preferred a Scalia or Thomas, to a Ginsburg or Breyer -- not even considering the appeals courts.

The problem as I see it is the politicians CLAIM to be conservative then do nothing . . .

No politician is going to do what you want all the time. Even Reagan compromised. You have a grudge against Santorum. Fine. I'm not going to hold one thing he did with which I disagree against him. Doing so is a recipe for failure. Most of the politicians that claim to be conservative generally are -- and certainly more so than the ones that claim to be liberal.

You have noticed she is dead, haven't you?

Yeah, I did. We have a cultural war on our hands. Refusing to vote for any Pub is a sure way of losing it. Would you leave FR because of some of the pro-death people here?

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "Would you leave FR because of some of the pro-death people here?"

Freepers have not made an oath of office. Their actions or lack of actions do not result in death.

[Tribune7]

Their actions or lack of actions do not result in death.

Unless their lack of action result in Dems taking office.

[beyond the sea]

answer post #113........... if you would!

I never thought that you would not.

Try to be an adult when and if you answer.....

[beyond the sea]

answer post #113........... if you would!

I never thought that you would not.

Try to be an adult when and if you answer.....

[beyond the sea]

and you can't be happy that the hero of death.............. Michael Shiavo has not even allowed the family a piece of Terri's hair.

You must be thrilled with your opinions on this matter!

[Mark in the Old South]

Bull. A slow train to Auschwitz is not morally superior to the express. A politician who says he is in favor of abortion is bad. A politician who says he is pro life but does the same as the pro choice politician is also bad, maybe more so because he deceives in addition to his other errors. If you vote for a pro choice but deceiving politician who wins you think you have made a moral decision, but if I vote for a pro life and honest politician that loses you wish to blame me for taking away a vote from the deceiver. The failure in your argument is the presumption I take anything away from anyone. The vote is mine, it will go to whom I deem fit. Give me someone I can vote for and the vote will follow, but you continue to rely on empty words. I keep telling you the same thing over and over, it just is not good enough. If the GOP acts the vote will follow. I am at a lost to get this through. May I recommend you think about it some more. I will say it one more time, if the GOP makes real progress in implementing the conservative agenda my vote will follow. Every time you come back to me unsatisfied you tell me you do not really believe they will ever do that, on some level you don't think they ever will. Every time you come back to me unsatisfied you add credibility to my theory.

[Tribune7]

A slow train to Auschwitz is not morally superior to the express.

Only if you've given up. If you an ounce of hope of stopping the train you want it to be slow.

I keep telling you the same thing over and over,

Exacly. You've given up. You've quit. You've surrendered. It's hopeless. Oh woe is me, oh woe is me.

[beyond the sea]

Answer to post #132, if you have more decency!

You are not acting well.

You cast aspersions on others, but never answer a meaningful question.

Try answering a question for once.

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "Only if you've given up. If you an ounce of hope of stopping the train you want it to be slow."

Not true. An express has a better chance of derailment, and may take out a few of the Nazis with it.

Re: "Exacly. You've given up. You've quit. You've surrendered. It's hopeless. Oh woe is me, oh woe is me."

I feel no such woe, are you projecting? Just who is giving up? I have new hope, I am angry but at least I have hope there will be change. I hope the GOP will do something between now and 2006, or I hope a loss will wake them up in time for 2008. If all else fails I hope a third party will arise and replace one or both parties. Where I despair in hope is that people like your self will exert any pressure on the GOP leadership, you only seem interested in pressuring me. Now that is hopeless.

[Tribune7]

Where I despair in hope is that people like your self will exert any pressure on the GOP leadership, you only seem interested in pressuring me.

I'm not pressuring you, I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming from. You say you're not going to vote for ANY Pubs then say you hope the GOP changes between now and 2006. How to do you propose to pressure them if they've already lost your vote?

You want to pressure a particular candidate or seek to have a strategy to advance a cause, fine. Let me know and I might sign on.

The goal is not to save the Pubs but to inculcate a culture of life, and political activism is only a part of it -- and not the most important part.

But to hold a grudge or seek to punish is unwise.

Further, electing moderates is not necessarily unproductive. These people have their finger in the air. Kennedy, Gephardt & Daschle all started as pro-lifers. The culture in general led by big media gave them the cover to show their insincerity.

If the culture changes you'll start seeing the moderates going the other way.

Which means that those of us who want to advance the pro-life cause have to change the culture and get rid of the die-hard pro-deathers, not the moderates.

[Mark in the Old South]

No I will not vote for Pubs. The reason I gave is because I no longer trust them. If they do things that restore that trust the vote will follow. I have also given examples of what I mean on this thread. It is your party not mine, come up with what you think is best. I am not a big fan of wet fingers so please spare me that. Like I said do what you think is best.

[Tribune7]

The reason I gave is because I no longer trust them.

I've never trusted a politician. It's not a matter of trust. It's a matter of holding them accountable.

[Mark in the Old South]

Then do so. I will as well. You will just have to deal with the manner I chose to do so. Remember it is my vote to cast for whom I please. It is presumptive to suggest it BELONGS to the GOP and some sort of "taking away" from them should it go to a third party.