Posted on 04/02/2005 7:44:12 PM PST by MHT
The interesting thing is this. I have heard from rumor that one French Bishop or Cardinal that is likely to be considered as next pope is from Jewish descent. If that is the case, and if he is elected, he would fit into Gloria Olivae perfectly. Look at Paul's Letter to the Romans, Chapter 11:17-24. Paul describes God's possessors of the Covenant, Abraham's descendants, as a cultivated olive tree. Gentile Christians are the wild olive branch from a wild olive tree, that has been grafted onto the original cultivated olive tree. Neither one, either Jew or Gentile, is considered better than the other, since Paul says neither group supports the roots. Regardless, if the Holy Father passes away and this French Cardinal or Bishop begins his reign, then I believe we must look twice at St. Malachy's prophecies. Link that shows all 112 popes' prophecy http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp
http://ad2004.com/prophecytruths/Articles/Prophecy/Malachy.html
The idea of the "three black popes" appears to come from modern ignorance that North Africa was in antiquity a part of the Mediterranean world settled originally by the Phoenicians. It's akin to the "Cleopatra was from Africa, therefore she was black" myth. Some web references, bizarrely, even claim that Terence and St. Augustine were black. One might as well say that Abraham Lincoln was obviously a Mexican, because he came from North America.
Therefore, The Iguana is correct: we don't know for certain, but the overwhelming likelihood is that all three were Romans, Berbers, or Punic.
"Africa" was not a continent during the Roman Empire. It was the name of the roman province from the western frontier of Egypt to present day Morocco. Blacks would have come from Nubia via the Nile.
Most precisely, the province of "Africa" was modern-day Tunisia (and essentially what was once the territory of Carthage). Persons referred to in antiquity as "Africans" came from this province. To the east of Africa was Cyrenaica (modern Libya), and to the west was Numidia (modern Algeria) and Tingitana (modern Morocco). You're absolutely right, though, that Romans didn't consider Africa to be our modern continent of the same name.
I just found out about that list and learned so much about it tonight. The reference to olives is fascinating; and, be it symbolic or overt, it changes the context in which to look at the most competitive candidates.
Me too.
Cardinal Arinze.
And the reference to olives cannot be denied.
I just checked and there are already odds in London on the most likely successors. TOP 10 FRONTRUNNERS
Tettamanzi
Arinze
Ratzinger
Hummes
Lustiger
Sodano
Daneels
Sepe
Biffi
Dias
Betting boards picks Cardinal D/T as 3 to 1 favorite
Tettamanzi is an Opus Dei person, which is great fodder for the DaVinci Code crowd. Also, other than being another old Italian, I'm concerned about his potential for criticizing capitalism, the lifeblood of modern democracy. And without democracy, would any church be able to thrive?
my guess: Ratzinger
Amen!!!!!!!!!!
Q: Who will be the next pope?"
A: I don't know, but they tend to go for these religious types."
As for past Popes including blacks. Well, I based my stuff on the Catholic Encyclopedia. If it is wrong it is wrong, if it is not it is not. It does show (and it was not my only reference) that at least one of the three African popes (Pope/Saint Gelisius) was a black Roman citizen. The other two were probably Italian Romans born and bred in Africa (which was then one of the bastions of the Roman empire), but Gelisius is depicted as a black Roman citizen raised in Rome. Again, either way it makes zilch difference to me whether he was asian, black, aborigine, or white ....as long as he was a man of God and left a mark that was more positive than negative when he left.
Same thing pertains to the next Pope. Whether it is one of the Italians, the Indian, the Nigerian, the Brazilian, or one of the others (the longshots) it really doesn't matter one way or the other. What is important is that he will be someone who was deemed by his peers as worthy for the post (or if someone adheres to Catholic Canon chosen by God ...if someone adheres to Catholic canon).
Not really, no. I was thinking more along the lines of you can't appease an enemy determined to destroy you.
This is more like what I was thinking.
Aren't the Jews the roots?
You must have read my mind. I was wondering if there were any Arab Cardinals.
As a christian always very interested in endtime prophecy.. I think this Guy would fit it perfectly.... But then again my thoughts are very far from Gods plans lol.. I used to think hey maybe arafat is the anti christ .. OOOps..
Jean-Marie Lustiger
Country: France (Archbishop of Paris)
Age: 79
Assets: Jewish? Shore up Old Europe Christendom.
Liabilities: Jewish! Too old.
Lustiger's mother, a Jew, was killed at Auschwitz. If the cardinals wanted to generate excitement in Europe, choosing Lustiger sure would be a dramatic way to do it.
Do Jews consider him Jewish? Technically, yes. As Rabbi Joseph Telushkin, author of Jewish Literacy, said, "According to Jewish law, a person born to a Jewish mother is Jewish, and being Jewish is not something a person can renounce. However
the Jewish community does not normally relate to such a person as a Jew."
Lustiger is, Telushkin says, popular with Parisian Jews, but other pundits feel that many Jews would be outraged if he were chosen. "Electing him would be a disaster for Catholic-Jewish relations," says Reese. "Some Jews would see this as the church putting him up as an example of what Jews should do."
What probably really rules him out now is his age. Since the mandatory retirement age for cardinals is 75, it might be a bit awkward moral-authority-wise for the pope to bust the cap. So, we probably will never get to find out whether Jewish mothers around the world would have told their children that some day they could grow up to be a doctor, a lawyer, or a pope.
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