Posted on 04/01/2005 8:05:46 PM PST by FairOpinion
I have no liberal friends in MA.
They considered the testimony of several people "clear and convincingf evidence".
The fact that you don't believe Michael Schiavo based on how you "feel" about him or the case has no bearing on the issue.
"Greer ordered the removal of ALL NUTRITION and HYDRATION from Theresa Marie Schiavo. The order never even mentioned the feeding tube."
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Exactly. That was my point. He didn't just order the withdrawal of "artificial" support -- if you want to call the feeding tube, he ordered that she by killed by dehydration and starvation, since nobody can survive without nutrition and hydration.
What best friend?
That is a popular misunderstanding. Actually, only one court accepted this (Terri's purported wish to be disconnected from life support) and found it to be factual and dispositive of her wishes - Greer's court. The rest of the courts never reviewed any of his findings of fact, including this one.
You don't know the details of the case but you're opining on it?
Exactly. I just wanted to further emphasize and clarify your point.
Did you know that the judge had ruled that anyone who gave anything to Terri by mouth - an ice chip, a sip of water - would be arrested?
That all of Terri's visits by her mother and father, her priests, the doctor that Jeb Bush sent in (William Cheshire, a neurologist from the Mayo clinic), were monitored by law enforcement officers to prevent anyone from giving Terri any thing by mouth, including a spoonful of ice chips or water?
Okay, let's for a moment assume that Michael actually represented Terri's wishes accurately, or that Florida statutes gave him the right as guardian to decide to refuse medical care.
Have we fallen into Lewis Carroll's Wonderland and elected Humpty Dumpty as our judge, so that 'medical care' has been expanded to sips of water or chicken broth because when the judge uses a word it means exactly what he chooses it to mean, neither more nor less?
The order forbade all nourshiment or hydration.
Judge Greer might well have been right as a point of law to order the removal of the gastric tube, but by what fun-house legal logic are you defending an order to forbid ordinary oral feeding when Florida statute, to say nothing of common decency and legal norms established by custom and usage under which persons charged with the care of incompetent persons are culpable for the death of their charges by starvation, explicitly forbid its denial?
One court ruled on that. When appealed the court said that in order to grant relief significant new evidence (like an advanced directive or written designated health care surrogate) be discovered. In other words they needed more evidence for relief than they did to terminate life prolonging procedures once Greer established the record.
The law has always been that the spouse has the first word on decicions like this.
Read Greer's decision. He refers to the Guardian Ad Litem's (GAL) belief that Michael Schiavo's testimony alone did not rise to clear and convincing. Greer stated that he wasn't required to rule on that testimony because he had the testimony of Scott and Joan Schiavo. (He also states in that decision that when the only evidence of intent is an oral declaration, the accuracy and reliability of that declaration may be challenged, which it was.)
I asked you what best friend?
I absolutely knew this had to be the case with the ABC News poll. Time and time again different polls on the same topic are shown to have very different results simply because of the differing assumptions made about the topic in the polls' wording. Either many people may not stop to think about this, and will accept the wording of the poll as authoritative, or the true meaning of the poll's results will be plainly misreported.
All week long certain posters have been using the ABC News poll to hurl insults at America. Instead of accepting the poll with a grain of salt (or not at all), they've been itching to promote their own sense of moral superiority. Reading some of the threads this week has been like taking a trip to DU or Indy Media.
The next of kin decided to forbid any medical care, dental care and hydration or nutrition by both artificial and natural means. No sips of water from her mother, no caring nurse was allowed to place ice chips on her tongue.
I don't?
You REALLY want to go there Terri?
.
TERRI is US
TERRI, Pray for US
.
Yes, he had "witnesses". Of course. How could I forget that his brother and sister in law "witnessed" Terri's expressing her desire for her feeding tube to be removed in the event she became disabled?
Terri also had "witnesses" to her statement about Quinlin...you know, the "where there's life there's hope" statement she made and to her statements indicating she was contemplating divorcing Schiavo.
Michael had no witnesses to what he claimed Terri's statements were. His brother and his wife testified to what they claimed were some other time that Terri mentioned that she wouldn't want to live like that -- that was about the occasion of the funeral of their 84 year old Mother.
All Terri's friends who have known her for 20+ years said that she never said anything like that, in fact she made comments, that would lead one to believe the opposite, that she believed that any life was special.
"Gee ... interesting how wording a question changes the outcome of a poll"
yeah, now that she is dead.
Several petitions to discontinue guardianship WERE filed. They were denied and/or not ruled on in a timely manner (depending on the petition). Many causes of action were cited, including his failure to provide care and therapy as recommended by the doctors, failure to provide annual reports/plans of care (required by Florida law), failure to provide annual financials (required by Florida law), conflict of interest due to his relationship, etc.
Don't know whether it was the fault of the Schindler attorneys at the time, or the court's fault, but MS remained as guardian.
I asked you an honest question. What best friend? Either answer or don't respond.
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