Posted on 04/01/2005 7:47:01 AM PST by marshmallow
FATHER FRANK PAVONE, PRIESTS FOR LIFE, NATIONAL DIRECTOR: Last night, I spent about two hours with her until past midnight, together with Bobby Schindler and Suzanne, and then again this morning for about an hour and a half, and then right up until about ten minutes before she died. We were praying, most of that time was spent simply in prayer, in quiet, just caressing her, and assuring her, also, of the prayers and concern of so many people around the world.
Q: Was their any sign of response from Terri Schiavo?
PAVONE: Yes. And let me tell you, I’ll preface that by saying I visited with her several times before the feeding tube was removed. She was very responsive--closing her eyes when I said, “Let’s pray together, Terri,” opening them up after the prayer. Smiling, returning the kiss of her father. Turning her eyes to me when I spoke to her. In many other ways, as well, responsive.
Even today, although, of course, with the effects of the dehydration, her response was much less. Nevertheless, her eyes were open, her eyes were moving, and as I prayed with her, her eyes were shifting over toward my direction--even until the last moments that I was with her.
Q: Now, of course, we are going over old territory, but it’s important to note here, you’ve heard the doctors who suggest that that is all reflexive, that none of it was a conscious movement on her part--either eye movement or anything else. What do you say to that?
PAVONE: Certainly amazingly-time “reflexes.” I’ll give the doctors the benefit of their own expertise. But this raises, of course, the deeper moral issue. Give them what they are saying. What does that mean? That someone at a lower level of functioning can just be starved to death?
That, of course, is the bigger question here. This is not just a death. This is a killing.
And we have to ask ourselves, has our nation now begun to go down the road of killing those who are disabled, simply because somebody says that they want to be killed?
Terri didn’t die today from anything except the fact that her food and water were withheld for the last two weeks. She had no other underlying illness whatsoever. This is a case of throwing away a disabled person.
Q: Father, do we know what happened to the Schindlers, Terri’s parents, during these final moments?
PAVONE: Yes. We were in communication with them this morning by phone, and they were then on their way over here, actually, when we heard the news of Terri’s passing, and then all of us were together inside the hospice just moments after that announcement. They went in to Terri, of course, to embrace her body. I stood at the door and offered the prayers of the church, for those who are just deceased, and of course we sat and just consoled on another, and now they are grieving privately at home. They are going to have a statement a little later.
Q: Were you able to give Terri her last rites?
PAVONE: I was able to give Terri absolution last night. She had already been given the fuller last rites of the Church by other priests in recent days.
Q: It sounds as though, thankfully, there was not a direct conflict between the Schindlers and the Schiavos during these last moments.
PAVONE: Yes. Thanks be to God. Had she lived another hour or so, I’m afraid there might have been, because Bobby was saying, “I will be glad to be in her room, even with Michael there. I want to be there.” And Michael was saying, “No. I don’t want that.” But then she died before that conflict when any further.
Q: There was no reconciliation, then, between the two parties in this fight?
PAVONE: Not as of this moment. I have appealed publicly to Michael to reconsider his whole position here. And even now that Terri has died, I make that appeal to him again, because, again, this affects people way beyond Terri. This affects many, many people who are and are going to be in similar situations.
We all have to, as we grieve, examine our consciences, and say, “What are we going to do with the disabled? How are we going to treat them?”
Q: Some people say this is such a unique situation, because she didn’t have a living will, because there was some dispute about whether Michael had her intentions in mind, that this makes a bad case to base any kind of precedent on. What would you say to that?
PAVONE: Well, first of all, as far as how people should handle these situations, a healthcare proxy--namely, a person who can speak for you, if you are in a situation where you can’t speak for yourself--is much better than having a piece of paper. A piece of paper cannot interpret itself. People can begin arguing over what a piece of paper says, just as they can argue over what people said to them verbally. The best thing is to have a living person who knows you, whom you trust, whom you’ve discussed these issues with, and who then, when you are in medical circumstances in which you cannot speak for yourself, that person can get, from the doctors, the exact details of what can be done for you, and then in consultation with the clergy of their choice, make the proper decision at those moments.
So, in that sense, yes. There were elements here that led to the conflict. However, the solution is broader than that. We do have, here, a classic case of the question of throwing away disabled people. This woman was killed. She didn’t die of a terminal illness. She was killed, and it is a matter, therefore, of conscience, right now, for us all to ask: “Is this what we are going to continue to do with brain-injured people?” Because, whether they have expressed their wishes or not, obviously it can result in their death, as has happened today.
Q: Father Pavone, is the nation better off for having examined the issues that came to the fore with Terri Schiavo’s death?
PAVONE: We are much better off for having examined them. We at Priests for Life work with the clergy throughout the country. We will ensure that we continue to examine them in the teaching and preaching of the Church, and in the discussion among the people. We would be glad to be part of that whole debate as it ensues.
what a shock
So, you're conveniently ignoring the FACT that your carefully constructed hypothetical was NOT the case, and that the brother and sister were in FACT there at the very end, and the FACT that the POSHINO Michael DENIED them the last few minutes with their blood sister?
If you want to use FACTS, fine. I thought the so-called "Wild Turkeys" subset of FR wasn't into trial balloons and hypotheticals.
Typical.
By Bobby's own account, he had been in the room for a while up until being asked to leave so an assessment could be made - the reason he protested leaving was not because Terri was going to die in the next few minutes, but because the last time it was "Michael's turn" to be in the room had lasted for several hours and Bobby did not want to be excluded again for that length of time.
It didn't take much for that to get turned into "Michael made the family leave at the moment of death," however.
His interpretation of events seems.... well, I don't know what to really say about it except to say that it seems that he was stretching the facts, IMO.
Felos is a scum at the least and has been for a very long time
Actually I don't blame them for that. Who wants helicopters and media and Jesse Jackson running around at the burial?
The new battle cry of the followers of Christ?
By Bobby's own account, he had been in the room for a while up until being asked to leave so an assessment could be made - the reason he protested leaving was not because Terri was going to die in the next few minutes, but because the last time it was "Michael's turn" to be in the room had lasted for several hours and Bobby did not want to be excluded again for that length of time.
It didn't take much for that to get turned into "Michael made the family leave at the moment of death," however.
That's a very nice way of putting it.
LOL Don't bother arguing here. You are the devil and are going to hell with Michael Schiavo and Judge Greer you God hating Nazi! :)
Who is "our", and where did I say that? Or are you just making it up?
The Attorney from Hell was on GMA saying that Terri's parents were not even at the Hospice at the time of her death; but if they had been, surely Michael would have let them be at her bedside.
"Where is Michael and how is he doing?" Hopefully, said the Attorney from Hell, he is at home, sleeping, trying to cope from the tragedy of losing his wife.
My thoughts: He's probably at home, helping the lovely and gracious Miss Jodi feed the children. He'll probably make sure they drink their orange juice, maybe be a bit upset that the little one spilled the milk, maybe scold them for not eating all their breakfast ... rush to help Miss Jodi rinse the dishes under the running water, for there are many things to do today.
May the sound ... the look ... the feel ... the taste of water haunt every one whose hands cannot be rinsed of the blood of this innocent woman ... may they grow lean no matter the amount of food set before them ... may the Lord take pity on these innocent children, for their father has murdered his wife.
Felos getting in that little dig at Mary Schindler was vile. The family was strip searched every time they entered that place. 2 armed guards were at the door while they were with Terri. What parent could stand to see their child starving to death, and not be allowed to give even the comfort of an ice chip?
Felos and his peaceful death "process" reminds me of Michael Jackson describing the molestation "process" as charming.
ping to self for later pingout.
Exactly so. Imagine she had just been a paraplegic and unable to eat or drink by herself, but stated that her will was not to be fed through a feeding tube. Would they have allowed her to die? The only difference is the mechanism of providing food and water. Ultimately this comes down to making life or death decisions based on the degree of mental function, and that's a very slippery slope.
You're sifting out the version that fits with what you wish the "truth" to be.
Check out post #25.
Felos is your man.
Followers of Christ should hate sin and hate evil, but because we are human we sometimes find it very hard to separate the evil act from the one who committed it. Pray for us.
Being a Bertrand Russell admirer, I imagine that your skepticism would be aroused the moment you saw his Roman collar, irrespective of what he said.
Fr. Pavone's life work is fighting for those who can't defend themselves- be it the unborn or the sick and suffering who've been deemed human detritus and unfit for this world.
He is about the only credible voice in this case.
The version I'm "sifting" came straight out of Bobby's mouth. Too bad it doesn't fit with your agenda.
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