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Under the Constitution, no person may be deprived of life without due process of law. This has traditionally meant a trial of one's peers, proof beyond a reasonable doubt of a heinous crime and no cruel or unusual punishment. All state's laws are subject to the Constitution. Though she committed no crime, Terri was put to death in a manner most decent men and women would not use to put a suffering animal out of its misery.
1 posted on 04/01/2005 7:04:38 AM PST by antonia
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To: antonia

Why was only one man, Judge Greer, the determinant of the facts in Terri's case?

In most other cases, it is a jury that determines the facts. Certainly the facts in all capital cases are determined by a jury.

Qualified individuals can make wise judgments. An individual can also make horrific judgments. Our society has determined that groups of individuals are more likely to be wise. That is why we have city councils, company boards of directors, and jury trials. Groups of people tend to be "less imperfect" than single individuals.

Setting aside personalities, as distasteful as they appear to be, having only one person determine the facts seems to be the central failing of the judicial system in Terri's case. For the future, that failing could be solved by legislative action.


2 posted on 04/01/2005 7:10:45 AM PST by LOC1
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To: antonia

At first I was against the congress and President passing the bill they passed and signed into law, until I realized what it said. It wasn't telling them to reinsert her feeding tube, it was telling the district/state/federal courts to look at all the evidence again and to make sure this was the right thing to do, to err on the side of life, for Terri. But what did they do? They ruled on procedure yet again.

Except that last minute decision by the 11th circuit appeallate allowing the Schindler's to repetition the court to look at the evidence again, but then quickly denied it when they did. THAT was a CYA because they knew they were wrong and it was too late at that point to change things.

The courts were in direct violation of a law passed by Congress and signed by the President. Period.


3 posted on 04/01/2005 7:14:15 AM PST by eyespysomething (It starts off as a drum circle, next thing you know you've got a college.)
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To: antonia

Agreed....also people don't want the government involved in lots of personal issues but at times when people are committing crimes against innocents the government must get involved.

*If the polls are correct and 46% of people believe this was an act of mercy (pulling tubes). I am disgusted with the society that surrounds me.


4 posted on 04/01/2005 7:14:22 AM PST by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: antonia

It's not that I don't want them "involved". I don't want PUBLIC SECTOR JOBS TO EXIST.

Fake careers, fake studies, and stupid laws all exist by stealing from MY paycheck, damn it, and I want it to stop!


5 posted on 04/01/2005 7:14:28 AM PST by SteveMcKing
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To: antonia
This site has always been home to the Libertarians. I haven't heard much from them about the Schiavo case.
I think that people being people want the government to intervene, or not intervene, in their lives when it is beneficial for them.
Sounds cynical but I think it's true.
6 posted on 04/01/2005 7:14:42 AM PST by starfish923
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To: antonia
which would never be imposed on a convicted murderer because of the Supreme Court's "evolving standards of decency.

I guess beyond a reasonable doubt only applies if you are accused of a crime. In Terri's case, heresay was enough to end her life. What a travesty.

7 posted on 04/01/2005 7:15:54 AM PST by Fenris6 (3 Purple Hearts in 4 months w/o missing a day of work? He's either John Rambo or a Fraud)
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To: antonia

Ping


8 posted on 04/01/2005 7:18:14 AM PST by ViLaLuz
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To: antonia
There's a lot of complete morons in our nation who don't realize that the courts are actually "the government."

They think the courts are some mystical, other wordly, benign arbiter sprung from the ether to mediate between citizens and "the government."

"I don't want the government deciding that! Let the courts decide! Now put Opry back on."

9 posted on 04/01/2005 7:18:32 AM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: antonia
It seems to me that "the government" (at least the judicial branch) was very much involved in this situation. I certainly agree that I wouldn't want those judges involved in any life/death decisions in my family!
11 posted on 04/01/2005 7:23:47 AM PST by MizSterious (First, the journalists, THEN the lawyers.)
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To: antonia

Okie-dokie. If your husband wants to kill you, let's all look the other way.

After all, doesn't the sanctity of marriage allow your husband to kill you if he wants to?

And doesn't respect for minimum government cause the rest of us to allow him to kill you without any peep from us?


14 posted on 04/01/2005 7:26:08 AM PST by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defence of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: antonia

Should the government try to save someone about to jump off the roof?


20 posted on 04/01/2005 7:40:01 AM PST by ex-snook (Exporting jobs and the money to buy America is lose-lose..)
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To: antonia
 

The first words in the Constitution are "We the people," not "We the judges."

Separation Of Powers: The Constitution says we have three co-equal branches of government.

Issues & Insights

Friday, April 1, 2005

Animal Farm

INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY

Separation Of Powers: The Constitution says we have three co-equal branches of government. The Terri Schiavo case is the latest example of one branch thinking it is more equal than the others.

The attempt by Congress to extend to Schiavo the same right of access to federal courts that a convicted murderer on death row has, including the right to a new hearing based on new evidence, has been attacked in many quarters as a violation of the separation of powers and a political usurpation of judicial powers.

Echoing this opinion was Judge Stanley Birch. Writing for the majority in the ruling by the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denying the final Schindler family plea to reinsert Terri's feeding tube pending a full review of the evidence, he said:

" Despite sincere and altruistic motivations, the legislative and executive branches of our government have acted in a manner demonstrably at odds with our Founding Fathers' blueprint for the governance of a free people - our Constitution."

Sen. Rick Santorum has noted that the Constitution clearly gives Congress full control over the jurisdiction of the federal courts, including their very existence. Referring to an earlier decision by U.S. District Judge James Whittemore rejecting a request for emergency intervention, Santorum said: "What we asked for in the Congress was a new finding of fact. And this judge in this district ignored it, snubbed his nose at Congress, I think against the law."

Congress did not tell the 11th Circuit what to decide. What Congress asked for was a de novo review - a full review of the evidence. And what the Schindlers argued before the 11th Circuit is Whittemore should have honored Congress' request and considered the entire court record and any new evidence, not just whether Florida court rulings met procedural standards under state law.

Santorum was right. Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution states: " The Congress shall have power . . . to constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court." Article III, Section 1 states: "The judicial power of the United States shall be vested in one Supreme Court and in such inferior courts as Congress may from time to time ordain and establish." Ordain and establish. These two sections mean all federal courts except the Supreme Court were created by Congress, which defined their powers and the kinds of cases they can hear. This also means Congress could have abolished the 11th Circuit altogether and set up a court just to hear pleadings on behalf of Schiavo.

The Supreme Court explained this in Lockerty v. Phillips (1943): "The congressional power to ordain and establish inferior courts includes the power of investing them with jurisdiction either limited, concurrent or exclusive, and of withholding jurisdiction from them in the exact degrees and character which to Congress may seem proper for the public good."

From school prayer to gay marriage to the Ten Commandments to the Pledge of Allegiance and a host of other issues, our courts have gone from interpreting laws to making them and throwing out laws they simply don't like.

The myth of the untouchable judiciary is just that - a myth. The first words in the Constitution are "We the people," not "We the judges." But whether it be the Florida Legislature or the U.S. Congress, the will of the people as expressed through its elected representatives is repeatedly thwarted and ignored.

The issue was not whether Congress exceeded its authority in this case, but whether it was willing to exercise the authority the Constitution clearly gives it.

21 posted on 04/01/2005 7:43:10 AM PST by pineconeland (Or dip a pinecone in melted suet, stuff with peanut butter, and hang from a tree.)
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To: antonia
"People just don't want government involved in 'end-of-life' decisions. It should be left to the family

One among many easily refutable arguments used by the pro-euthanasia crowd.

27 posted on 04/01/2005 8:36:28 AM PST by TheDon (Euthanasia is an atrocity.)
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To: antonia
It has been my experience in this case and at other times, NOT wanting the GOVERNMENT to be involved MEANS the CONGRESS and the POTUS.......but NOT the COURTS.

For some strange reason that only the PUBLIC SCHOOL system can explain many citizens do not consider the courts to be part of the Government. At least NOT in the sad [Shaivo] case.

28 posted on 04/01/2005 8:48:41 AM PST by PISANO (We will not tire......We will not falter.......We will NOT FAIL!!! .........GW Bush [Oct 2001])
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To: antonia
Has anyone noticed when any ACT is couched as a PRIVATE FAMILY MATTER the public wants the the government to butt out. Sounds great on the surface but as of yesterday there are TWO incidents in the past several years that have been couched by the media as PRIVATE FAMILY MATTERS.

The chief executive of the US LYING UNDER OATH and the state sanctioned execution of Terri Shaivo. Both cases have a significant majority on the morally bankrupt side of the issue

AMAZING!!

31 posted on 04/01/2005 8:58:33 AM PST by PISANO (We will not tire......We will not falter.......We will NOT FAIL!!! .........GW Bush [Oct 2001])
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To: antonia
What happened to just being a human being, you know? It's nothing more than state-sanctioned murder. All the big guys, they all have their hands tied up by some tinhorn judge down there. Come on, when they want to whip a judge, they got no problem doing that. Look what they did to [Ten Commandments proponent Roy Moore] in a heartbeat. So they can do it if they want. They just don't want to." ~ Mel Gibson on Terri Schiavo, on the Sean Hannity radio show, March 30, 2005.
33 posted on 04/01/2005 9:37:01 AM PST by tomatoealive (On a hot summer day in my garden, I picked a pretty, ripe, tomato, and ate it there.)
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To: antonia
The Left are such hypocrites. The government WAS involved in murdering in Terri Schiavo. It was not as people think, a private, family decision. Who is a judge but a government agent? And the extraordinary lengths to which Judge Greer went to make sure the families involved could not settle this matter for themselves reveals that the concept of "limited government" means nothing to judges. When I hear people say they don't want government involved, boy they don't know the full facts of what really happened here - or don't care to.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
53 posted on 04/01/2005 7:20:29 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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