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Sundaland (GGG)
Personal Pages ^ | 3-31-2005

Posted on 03/31/2005 8:48:54 PM PST by blam

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To: blam
Thanks. I have considered this area too as have many others, Jim Allen's Historic Atlantis In Bolivia. Dr Robert Schoch believes these people were refugees from Sundaland when it went underwater at the end of the Ice Age. This can be found in his book, Voyages Of The Pyramid Builders

I havent read that book.

So Sundaland went down and it's people fled to all over the world? Hmmmm. Hell-of-a-better emergency planning than New Orleans it seems? How much food would that have required? How much time and ships?

How could flooding and earthquakes that destroys an entire continent leave any survivors, even (especially~!)if they where on boats? Where the survivors already exploring other places at the time?

Presuming there was a Sundaland and all, i still dont' know... if my country was flooded, I would not sail out to the other side of the globe. I would go to the nearest bit of furtile land, and there should be plenty around Indonesia. At least those people would be familiar to me!

To sail to lands far away, to split up groups of survivors, well it's strange. Not impossible, but awkward. There would have to have been prior exploration and a lot of knowledge where you are going, and a great shortage of food or space in the surrounding lands, before i would sail to another continent to live.
41 posted on 05/09/2006 8:52:55 AM PDT by S0122017
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To: S0122017
This is the best book to read on the subject. Schoch's book reads more like a Graham Hancock book:

Eden In The East

From the Author

'Eden in the East'overturns conventional ideas of the origins of western civilization in Mesopotamia. In this book I place Southeast Asia for the first time as the key to the first roots of civilisation.
At the same time I provide scientific explanations for numerous, and previously unexplained, cultural links between early Eastern and Western cultures. Notable among these links are the hundreds of myths of a great flood which forced people into boats and left only a few survivors.
I can now identify this flood as the dramatic rise in sea level at the end of the ice age that suddenly inundated vast areas of Eurasia. In other words the Biblical Flood really did occur. It had its most disastrous effects, however, in the continent of Southeast Asia - now a lost and half-sunken Eden.

As the Ice Age ended, there were three catastrophic and rapid rises in sea level. The last of these, which finished shortly before the start of civilization in Mesopotamia, may have been the one that was remembered.
These three floods drowned the coastal cultures and all the flat continental shelves of Southeast Asia. As the sea rolled in, there was a mass emigration from the sinking continent. These flood-driven refugees, carried their domestic animals with them in large ocean-going canoes in all directions.
The networks of sea trade, created by their settlements around the Indian Ocean, fertilized the Neolithic cultures of China, India, Mesopotamia and Egypt.

The Southeast Asian contributions to the building of the first cities in Mesopotamia may not have been solely technological. While they may have brought the new ideas and skills of megalithic construction cereal domestication, sea-faring, astronomy, navigation, trade and commerce, they may also have introduced the tools to harness and control the labour of the farmers and artisans. These included magic, religion, and concepts of state, kingship and social hierarchy.

The evidence:

While most alternative prehistories are based more on speculation than fact, I have found some very solid evidence; and have built on the work of specialists in many fields in addition to my own research, to support a comprehensive new picture.

The most solid facts come from oceanographic research of the last decade. It now appears that the great rise in sea level after the last ice age, known about for many years, was not gradual; three sudden ice-melts, the last of which was only 8000 years ago, had catastrophic effects on tropical coasts with flat continental shelves.
Rapid land loss was compounded by superwaves, set off by cracks in the earth's crust as the weight of ice shifted to the seas.

Archaeology holds the most accurately dated clues to the past. I have devoted two chapters to archaeological evidence found on coasts and in caves throughout the Indo-Pacific region. All of the technological 'firsts' which signalled man's emergence from the long Palaeolithic era towards the end of the Ice Age come from the Pacific Rim islands.
These include evidence of deliberate long-distance sailing and grinding of cereal flour in the Solomon islands from 30,000 years ago. The world's first pots, 12,500 years old, come from Japan. The first evidence that swamps were drained for agriculture comes from the New Guinea Highlands 9,000 years ago.

These snapshots hint at a much older history to the discovery of Neolithic skills in the East. The better archaeological preservation of the later stages of human development in Mesopotamia and Egypt, however, has given rise to the view that civilization started in the West.

I review the evidence of the spoken word in the two linguistic chapters. Experts in the history of language now recognise that Southeast Asia not Europe or West Asia was the centre of language dispersal at the end of the Ice Age.
The ancestral language of the Micronesians and Polynesians did not come out of China, as has been recently assumed, but further south over 8000 years ago out of the drowning islands of Indonesia.
As the Flood engulfed Indo- China and separated Sumatra from Malaysia the ancestral languages of the Khmers, whose descendants built Angkor Wat, moved west into India.

The most dramatic new findings in this book come out of my own research field. I have published more than 25 scientific papers on the genetic prehistory of the Indo-Pacific region over the past 15 years. Building on my initial work, in Eden in the East I have shown that genetic disorders can be used as people-markers revealing a new view of prehistoric migrations in the Indo-Pacific region.
My latest finding, made in collaboration with the Oxford Institute of Molecular Medicine, was published in the American Journal of Human Genetics in October 1998. This paper arose directly out of my research for Eden in the East. It provides compelling evidence that Polynesians and other argonauts of the Indian and Pacific Oceans originated in eastern Indonesia back in the Ice Age rather than in China, as previously thought.
This finding alone forces the realisation that the Polynesians' skills of sailing, navigation, astronomy and agriculture had their origins, back in Indonesia, during the Ice Age.

Another objective tool that I use to explore ancient East-West cultural influence in the last part of the book is comparative mythology. Uniquely shared folklore shows that counterparts and originals for nearly every Middle Eastern and European mythological archetype, including the Flood, can be found in the islands of eastern Indonesia and the southwest Pacific.
Southeast Asia is revealed as the original Garden of Eden and the Flood as the force which drove people from Paradise.

My multidisciplinary approach to prehistoric enquiry has been recognised in the academic fields of linguistics and comparative folklore.
I have been invited to present papers on my work on prehistory at international linguistic meetings. This year I contributed a chapter to a book on Flood myths in the Moluccas published by the Department of Languages and Cultures of Southeast Asia and Oceania, Leiden University (Netherlands). --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

42 posted on 05/09/2006 9:15:17 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

thy


43 posted on 05/09/2006 10:03:01 AM PDT by S0122017
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To: blam
I have an open mind. I'll even list to your ideas about Atlantis.

I learn a lot on the periphery of your Atlantis posts, but Plato was just being Plato with his technique of burying dialogues within sets of narratives and having them told to us by unquestionable sources. His story of Atlantis (in 'Timaeus' and 'Critas,' where the politically opposite states of Athens and Atlantis are examined - both founded by Gods and settled by their descendants) is beyond the reach of the most reliable Egyptian records. And oral tradition is notoriously unreliable.

In Plato's 'Symposium,' humans were originally a race of Siamese twins, but I can't find anybody out there looking for Siamese twins in the fossil record.
44 posted on 05/10/2006 8:29:53 PM PDT by Boreas (Character is destiny)
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To: Boreas
"I learn a lot on the periphery of your Atlantis posts."

I don't recall that Oppenheimer mentions Atlantis at all in his books. It was Dr Robert Schoch, citing Oppenheimer's work, who does in his book, Voyages Of The Pyramid Builders.

45 posted on 05/10/2006 10:14:46 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
I don't recall that Oppenheimer mentions Atlantis at all in his books. It was Dr Robert Schoch, citing Oppenheimer's work, who does in his book, Voyages Of The Pyramid Builders.

I can't tell from your posts whether you believe that the Atlantis mentioned by Plato existed or not, and it doesn't matter, because they are very interesting and educational posts. But I don't believe that Atlantis ever existed. I place Atlantis in the same category as 'The Da Vinci Code' (or baseless creationist ideas) of the present day. It's very entertaining, and it's intellectually stimulating, but that's John on Christ's right hand in 'The Last Supper,' not Mary Magdalene (the scholars tell me so). They never had a daughter Sarah who came ashore at Ste. Maries de le Mer in southern France. Even the locals will tell you it was somebody else who came ashore there. Hence, Christ's blood doesn't survive today (not that it would matter with respect to his message). Same with Atlantis, the Fountain of Youth, Aryans in the Himalayas, canals on Mars, 911 terrorists coming from Canada, etc. None of it is true, but those ideas inspire a broad range of people to do their thing. I even knew a creationist geology professor. There's no going back once you research and understand the origins of the Atlantis myth (as I've done).
46 posted on 05/11/2006 6:44:38 PM PDT by Boreas (Character is destiny)
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To: Boreas
"I can't tell from your posts whether you believe that the Atlantis mentioned by Plato existed or not, and it doesn't matter, because they are very interesting and educational posts.

I think there is some truth to all ancient myths. I think there must have been an Atlantis. My ideas of it's possible location have changed numerous times. Sundaland is presently my preferred location.

47 posted on 05/11/2006 7:11:51 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Great article,thanx.I won't comment on the veracity of the theory,but i've held the opinion for years that civilization is considerably older than estimates would indicate.The fact all civilizations mention an "ancient" society that was lost to flooding and/or seizmic activity is compelling.


48 posted on 07/08/2006 7:50:57 AM PDT by Thombo2
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To: Thombo2
You'll probably like this one too.

Where Was Atlantis? Sundaland Fits The Bill, Surely!

49 posted on 07/08/2006 10:14:48 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

All very interesting links.. ty for posting!


50 posted on 12/29/2006 4:41:07 PM PST by Trillian
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To: blam
I cannot (for the life of me) understand Why this thread got only 21 replies.

Just maybe it's because the foundation of the thread is a nut job who learned a language no one else knows, and read thousands of tablets which "mysteriously" disappeared.

Without leaving a trace.
Cameras had been invented, but it was against his religion to use one. I suppose.

51 posted on 03/27/2007 3:49:50 PM PDT by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: Publius6961
For anyone who still wonders how any of this stuff can be taken seriously, just google the word "naacal"...

Moonbat city..

52 posted on 03/27/2007 4:34:37 PM PDT by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: blam
Or, a much worse thought, Antarctica was also melting. Despite that, the circumpolar vortex at the Antarctic Circle would have kept things cold enough year round to maintain a massive ice dam at the outer perimeter of the continent.

Melting of ice within the ice dam would have created a massive lake up to 2 miles deep.

When the dam finally broke in a catastrophic crash, you'd had a tsunami leaving Antarctica headed North with the power to climb thousands of feet in altitude as it hit continental masses.

Guy would have had to be hunting birds of paradise up in the Java/Sumatran mountains to survive that, and he'd still have to be on the North slopes!

Just about the only population that'd been left relatively intact would be living in Northern Asia or Central Africa.

53 posted on 06/05/2007 6:53:06 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Publius6961
Good grief ~ I'm still working on the meaning/origin of two "hand me down words" from oldtimers in the family for a language now spoken poorly by less than 400 people.

One of them seems to mean "reindeer crossing" or "mule's crossing", and the other seems to mean "reindeer pants" ~ like a coverall you might wear out working with animals in a corral.

These words give me a clue about where some of the ancestors came from several centuries ago (from roughly 1638 to 1812). It's definitely the Sapmai, but is it in Finland or Norway?

So many questions, so few answers, and when the family members left the place, there was no nationstate that'd yet organized any of it.

Still, little as I can figure out about the individuals involved, their ancestors seem to have used a highly developed pictoglyph system as much as 9,000 years ago, and that's very important.

The Chinese now have a collection of 20,000 similar pictoglyphs to study and they think it's very nearly an ideographic system very similar to the one currently in use in China.

These places where this stuff was found were cold as the devil back then and had more than today's 168 "snow days" per year.

I can tell you why they had a lot of time on their hands, but not what their language sounded like, or what they called themselves or others, or if they even knew that others existed.

Research in all things procedes in fits and starts and progress is always questionable.

The Sundaland thesis fits into my own question ~ why is it cinnamon is so incredibly healthy for 5% of the human population to use ~ it helps us use insulin, lowers cholesterol, drives down tri-glycerides, and smells so good. Cinnamon's homeland is Cylon and Sundaland. We must have lived there a long time for an appetite like that to become written in the genes.

54 posted on 06/05/2007 7:09:14 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
"When the dam finally broke in a catastrophic crash, you'd had a tsunami leaving Antarctica headed North with the power to climb thousands of feet in altitude as it hit continental masses."

Some think the Laurentide ice sheet floated, then broke in half and went crashing into Hudson Bay . Gigantic tsunamis!! Could explain why even the Tibeteans have flood stories of the 'mountain-topping' variety.

55 posted on 06/05/2007 7:48:50 PM PDT by blam
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To: muawiyah
"Cinnamon's homeland is Cylon and Sundaland. We must have lived there a long time for an appetite like that to become written in the genes."

Hmmm. My youngest brother has an allergic reaction to cinnamon.

Humans would have flourished in Sundaland during the Ice Age.

56 posted on 06/05/2007 8:00:12 PM PDT by blam
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To: muawiyah
Another Sundaland article:

Where Was Atlantis? Sundaland Fits The Bill, Surely!

57 posted on 06/05/2007 8:03:35 PM PDT by blam
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To: S0122017
No, it's not science. It's an interesting theory, though. The money quote in the article:

"Many scientific communities are sadly all too like religions. In spite of all the evidence against their theory, their doctrine and dogma must be observed and preserved!"

Boy, ain't that the truth. Sort of like what Schoch and co get from the Egyptologists, or anyone who disagrees that immediate radical action is necessary to combat anthropogenic Global Warming.

There are some fascinating black holes in our collectively murky prehistory and quite a bit of still unreconciled (to my satisfaction) evidence. I'm willing to listen and research and value the sensible theories while disregarding those which are less so. Multiple pyramid-building post-Neolithic cultures independently developing on various continents never sat well with me as a theory.

58 posted on 08/03/2007 12:55:19 PM PDT by Dr.Deth
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To: Dr.Deth
For me the 'money quote' (and where I started laughing) was this one:

The tablets revealed that man first appeared in Mu millions of years ago, at a time when dinosaurs walked the Earth, and that a sophisticated race of 64 million people had somehow evolved.

That would put the origin of Man about 60 million years in the past -- shades of Alley Oop. I have no doubt that Sundaland existed and I doubt we're even close to answering questions about the origin of mankind and civilization. But a belief based on secret disappearing tablets read and interpreted by one man -- well, I'll pass in favor of real evidence.

59 posted on 08/03/2007 1:25:46 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: Bernard Marx

bookmark


60 posted on 08/17/2007 6:02:21 PM PDT by Free Vulcan (Fight the illegal Mexican colonizers & imperialist conquistadors! Long live the resistance!)
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