Russia to Erect Monument to WWII Figures

Associated Press Writer ^ | 31 March 05 | MARIA DANILOVA

[jb6]

MOSCOW - The city formerly known as Stalingrad will erect a monument to Josef Stalin, Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill to honor their historic Yalta conference in 1945, the city's mayor said Thursday.

AP Photo

Volgograd Mayor Yevgeny Ishchenko also said his city is considering changing some street names in honor of the Battle of Stalingrad, which is widely considered a turning point in World War II.

"We are talking about eternalizing the leaders of world powers, the powers that won in that war, about eternalizing a historic event," Ishchenko said.

Zurab Tsereteli — a sculptor known for grandiose statues that many consider more kitsch than art — is donating the massive bronze statue to the city, located about 550 miles southeast of Moscow. Ishchenko said they hope to erect the monument in time for the 60th anniversary of the end of the war, on May 9.

Erecting monuments to Stalin remains a controversial issue for many Russians, who say the dictator was responsible for the deaths of millions of his own people. Other Russians revere him for the Soviet Union's rapid industrialization and his leadership during the fight against Nazi Germany in what is known here as the Great Patriotic War.

Ishchenko stressed the Yalta monument was not to honor Stalin, but to honor the Nazi defeat and the Yalta conference that charted the postwar world.

It is important "not to blacken our past too much," he said, and to love Russian history "the way it is."

Volgograd residents are also considering renaming some streets in honor of the Battle of Stalingrad, he said. The city's public council may rename the city's main street, Lenin Avenue, to Stalingrad Avenue. Other streets may be named after heroes of the battle.

Ishchenko said there is also talk of returning the city to its previous name of Stalingrad. The city was renamed Volgograd in 1961 after Soviet leaders denounced Stalin for promoting a cult of personality.

Ishchenko, however, said the city will not back the proposal unless it is endorsed by the majority of city residents. A recent opinion poll found only 15 percent of Volgograd residents in favor of renaming the city, he said.

[sergey1973]

It's simply wrong to put monument to Stalin--the worst mass murder of the 20th century anywhere. There are plenty of WWII real heroes that could be commemorated.

[jb6]

There is a difference. If you put up a monument to Stalin alone, then yes. But this is a moment in history. What would you do, take Stalin out of that historic moment? Then you can't just put Roosovelt and Churchhill up, that would be silly, as silly as a lot of myths here in the US that the Russian front was a minor skirmish and the real fighting was in Normandy.

Stalin was evil, that is true, he erased people out of pictures and history. But removing him from the context he is in is doing the same thing he did, revise history to get rid of the inconvinences, equally wrong.

[jb6]

Stalin didn't murder more Ukrainians then Russians, sorry the Kulaks, while the starvation was centered on Ukraine, there were famines all over Russia. The difference is, most of the Kulaks in Russia proper had already been "tamed" during the Civil War, where they were murdered. Ukraine had been under Anarchist rule (yup an organized Anarchist with a standing army) and thus was the last to be fully "tamed". Twenty million Russians alone were butchered. But in truth, the Russian, Belaruss, and Ukrainians are one people: the Russ and they all suffered immeasurably from the International Communists, many from other nations running to their little devils Lenin and Stalin. Birds of a feather and all that.

[jb6]

Stalin murdered more Russians than Hitler.

Finally something I can actually agree with you on. However, had Hitler won, it would have been quite the opposite. The Nazi plan was to exterminate all the city dwellers, all the educated and leave only 10-15 million in the villages for slave labor.

[dfwgator]

But Hitler had plans to use Stalin as his henchmen for those 10-15 million Russians. Hitler personally admired Stalin, and actually Stalin admired Hitler, even though their countries were mortal enemies.

[jb6]

Try to erect a statue of any of the important commanders of the southern army during the civil war.

And yet Seattle put up a statue of Vladimir Lenin. Go frigging figure. Try hanging a historic confederate flag or teaching the reality that not only did Blacks also own slaves (note: two biggest slave owners in Charleston were black brothers.) but also fought against the Union. One of the artillery batteries, from what I read, at First Manasis was mostly black and the Army of Tennessee had some 4-6,000 blacks serving under arms.

[jb6]

Oh I know he admired him in his ruthlessness and tried to emulate it, especially in the last days with the roving Gestapo "judges" who executed soldiers for any "breach" of discipline real or not.

I never heard of Hitler wanting to use Stalin, but why not? He didn't finish off the British at Dunkirk because he wanted a dual Anglo Empire on Europe.

Hitler wasn't exactly sound in the head, thank the good Lord.

[GarySpFc]

It's simply wrong to put monument to Stalin--the worst mass murder of the 20th century anywhere. There are plenty of WWII real heroes that could be commemorated.

And when you think that Roosevelt and Churchill were included in the monument at Volgograd that tells me they were only honoring his actions at Volgograd, not the man.

[spanalot]

"The residents have a deep nostalgia for The Battle of Stalingrad, and any feelings for Stalin are for his determination to save the city"

Stalin was an inept paranoid schizophrenic that slaughtered his best generals.

When Hitler invaded Russia, he became catonic for 2 weeks.

I think this purported affection for Stalin is so much Kremlin PR.

[spanalot]

"Stalin didn't murder more Ukrainians then Russians, sorry the Kulaks, while the starvation was centered on Ukraine, there were famines all over Russia."

Stalins Famine Genocide conveniently stopped at the border.
There really is no dispute that Ukrainians were targeted by Stalin.

http://www.faminegenocide.com/resources/famine_map.html

Your arguments to the contrary are really quite remarkable. Do you think the Kulaks deserved to be killed for sabotaging collectivization?

[spanalot]

"that tells me they were only honoring his actions at Volgograd, not the man."

Stalins other actions were to export genocide at the muzzle of the AK-47 - to the toon of 100 million death in the last century.

[Lukasz]

and any feelings for Stalin are for his determination to save the city, and not actual love for him.

Stalin doesn’t deserve for any credit for this victory, he didn’t cared for his soldiers nor civilians before, during and after WWII. He has only determination to stay in power, nothing more.

My wife's father taught his children at an early age that Stalin was an evil man. My wife is the youngest of the group, with some as old as 63, and so you can see he started teaching against Stalin long before Khrushchev unmasked the dictator's true evil.

This is proofing only that father of your wife was probably honorable man. But it has nothing to do with Russian education system today.

[GarySpFc]

This is proofing only that father of your wife was probably honorable man. But it has nothing to do with Russian education system today.

You have no shame, and will stoop to any lie to bad mouth Russia. My wife was a high official in the Volgograd Region's educational system, and late last night after making my post I showed her the picture, and asked for her why they included Churchill and Roosevelt in a Volgograd statue. She stated it in no way honored Stalin, but rather the war effort.

[Lukasz]

Oh I really have no humor today to argue with you, if you think that Stalin deserve for any credit from this victory, you are at least blind for the facts. And this monument in Yakutia (post #55) also is OK? Maybe you should erect monument of Stalin in your home if you are so much grateful to him (for victory of course). Disguising!

[GarySpFc]

Oh I really have no humor today to argue with you, if you think that Stalin deserve for any credit from this victory, you are at least blind for the facts. And this monument in Yakutia (post #55) also is OK? Maybe you should erect monument of Stalin in your home if you are so much grateful to him (for victory of course). Disguising!

Either you cannot read or are so blinded by hate you cannot read my posts. I in no way was honoring or in love with Stalin. Indeed, I stated the object of the statue was to honor the war effort, NOT STALIN. Go back and read three or four times before posting. That said, I suspect you are so consumed by hate your blindess will not allow you to see correctly.

[Lukasz]

Oh I really have no humor today to argue with you, if you think that Stalin deserve for any credit from this victory, you are at least blind for the facts. And this monument in Yakutia (post #55) also is OK? Disguising!

Either you cannot read or are so blinded by hate you cannot read my posts. I in no way was honoring or in love with Stalin. Indeed, I stated the object of the statue was to honor the war effort, NOT STALIN. Go back and read three or four times before posting. That said, I suspect you are so consumed by hate your blindess will not allow you to see correctly.

But Gary, what I really wrote? Maybe you should erect monument of Stalin in your home if you are so much grateful to him (for victory of course).

Do you think that in Russia there is no real heroes? Maybe Germans should build monument of Hitler cause thanks to him they lost the war and because of that, they aren’t Nazis anymore? Additionally Hitler reduced unemployment. /sarcasm

This monument it is poor idiotism, why Moscow decided erect such shit? They built monument of “the most important” armies but it is not enough, Stalin also must be! You are still ignoring the fact that in Yakutia Stalin will stand ALONE.

[GarySpFc]

This monument it is poor idiotism, why Moscow decided erect such shit? They built monument of “the most important” armies but it is not enough, Stalin also must be! You are still ignoring the fact that in Yakutia Stalin will stand ALONE.

It appears all you want to do is argue and berate Russia. Note in the article, "Ishchenko stressed the Yalta monument was not to honor Stalin, but to honor the Nazi defeat and the Yalta conference that charted the postwar world."

AND

"Ishchenko, however, said the city will not back the proposal unless it is endorsed by the majority of city residents. A recent opinion poll found only 15 percent of Volgograd residents in favor of renaming the city, he said."

Note, Ishchenko is giving the statue to the city. The city is the ones deciding to accept the statue. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MOSCOW.

[Atlantic Bridge]

The German Wehrmacht lost the war, because Hitler was a avaricious idiot. He was so hungry for "Lebensraum im Osten" (livespace in the east) that he forgot to finish "Operation Seelöwe", the invasion of Britain. It would have meant "blodd, sweat and tears" (sarcasm) for the German Wehrmacht, but it would have been possible.

Hitler hated to be dependend on Stalin for the replenishment with gasoline (it was always because of oil). This was his second motivation to march into the direction of Baku.

The real victory over the German troops was fought technically in first line by the red army. The most important battle was Stalingrad. That much is true. But I think the moral part of the victory is equal among all participants on the allied side. It doesn't matter, if someone who sacrificed his live for this noble goal, comes from Poland, America, France, Russia, Ukraine, Belgium or whereever. They all are heroes (to me).

I think we (Germans like me included) are all more than lucky that Hitler had not the right education and intelligence for the "right" decisions.

BTW - Stalin and Hitler played in the same (king)class of beasts. To me it does not matter anymore, if someone has killed 20 or 40 million people. Although there is a ethical difference among them: Stalin never started to kill humans in death factorys. The gas chambers were something new.

P.S. No one of those two a++holes deserves a monument. But the red amy and its brave victims earned a memorial or sure.

[jb6]

As I've said, I can only handle a monument to him in the context of all three main leaders, as a historic occurance. Anything beyond that should have a stick of dynomite planted below it.

[dfwgator]

Had Hitler treated the Russians decently, I suspect capturing Russia would have been much easier. Originally many Russians saw Hitler as a "liberator" from Stalinist tyranny. If Hitler would have simply treated the conquered Russians decently instead of as subhumans, he would have won the war. With the Red Army vanquished, Hitler could have always turned on the Russians anyway. Good thing Hitler was too stupid to realize this.