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Jeb Bush - Damned if you do - Damned if you don't
March 30, 2005 | watchdog_writer

Posted on 03/30/2005 6:44:50 PM PST by watchdog_writer

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To: watchdog_writer

Maybe if he starts "doing" instead of "talking", we will be able to test your hypothesis.


61 posted on 03/30/2005 7:45:01 PM PST by streetpreacher (The fires of hell burn hot and try to destroy me, I run to your will Oh God I know you’ll restore me)
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To: ARCADIA
>>>>>>>>A constitutional crisis, is a built-in reset, within the legitimate structure of our government. The real risk, is when you fail to trigger that process and instead end up with an extra-constitutional crisis. That is when bullets start flying, building get blown up, and we start to resemble last year's political process in Iraq. There are people out here who feel that the courts are wrongfully killing innocent people. You may agree with them, or disagree with them; but that is a very dangerous attitude to running through your population.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


This is an excellent post.
I hope people really think about what you said before they give a knee jerk reply.
62 posted on 03/30/2005 7:46:49 PM PST by snarkytart (You're Gutless. You're Undressed.)
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority

 The buck stops with a civilized people who should never stand for the barbaric starvation of an innocent human being under a false cloak of legalism. Did we not put Judge Greer into office? He sits in judgment because conservatives have failed to mobilize at the polls. I do not advocate revolution and bloodshed, I prefer the peaceful transition of power. VOTE JUDGE GREER OUT OF OFFICE. That is the American way. Do not compare us with the Third Reich, that is over the top.

Corrupt judges and courts have been ordering barbaric atrocities throughout history and they must be made to kneel to a higher moral law by the enraged people themselves. That would be the VOTERS! If only the voters knew what you know. It is our duty to inform them so that they can make good decisions. Do you think that a conservative pro-life judge would have made the same decision as Judge Greer?  I think we would have had a much different result.

 Why is it that some want to blame the judicial system? Are we not responsible for putting them into office? We have the ultimate power of the vote - use it!

 My advice – less hysteria, and more political activism – put conservative pro-life judges in office.

 

 

 

 

 

 

63 posted on 03/30/2005 7:46:58 PM PST by watchdog_writer
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To: Cboldt

I see what you mean. But does this not, in the end, rely on the Judiciary to police itself? The mechanisms you site are good evidence that the Judiciary has ample opportunity to correct self-error, but if the facts as they are being presented here are correct, it would seem that the primary focus of the judiciary is to dig in intransigently, and say "we ain't gonna, an you cain't make us". It is an arrogance that needs to be seen by the world.
Thanks for the critique. Am I further wrong here?


64 posted on 03/30/2005 7:47:31 PM PST by pickrell (Old dog, new trick...sort of)
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To: pickrell
there will always be a percentage of the City, County, State or Federal government employees who will be willing to enforce such judgements.

That is why our governor's are entrusted with a national guard. If you think about it for a moment; there could be no other reason for the existence of a national guard. We have been using them as extra manpower for recovery efforts - but, if that were the intent, we would simply create an emergency response team, with rescue vehicles instead of tanks.
65 posted on 03/30/2005 7:49:04 PM PST by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: ARCADIA
That is precisely why we employ, at great expense to ourselves, professional politicians to keep an eye on things. There will always be uninformed voters; none of us are in a position to keep track of the nuances of so vast a system.

Employ? did you mean to say elect? Why do we have so many liberal legislators and judges? Answer - misinformed voters. Why are they misinformed? - MSM - NYTimes, Washington Post, Los Angles Times, Boston Globe, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, shall I continue are do you get the point?

66 posted on 03/30/2005 7:50:58 PM PST by watchdog_writer
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To: watchdog_writer

Excellent reasoning; excellent writing! THANK YOU!


67 posted on 03/30/2005 7:53:26 PM PST by DrDeb
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To: ARCADIA

Sorry, I didn't post what he said. I do not advocate a militia. My solution was to vote conservative judges into office, vote Conservative pro-life legislators into office. Sorry for the confusion.


68 posted on 03/30/2005 7:53:44 PM PST by watchdog_writer
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placemarker


69 posted on 03/30/2005 7:54:40 PM PST by Constitution Day ("You guys need a pallet of paper bags to breathe into, I swear.")
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To: streetpreacher
Maybe if he starts "doing" instead of "talking", we will be able to test your hypothesis.

as in "many will say Lord, Lord, but I will say I never knew you".

70 posted on 03/30/2005 7:56:19 PM PST by watchdog_writer
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To: Arthur McGowan
The alternative to Keyes's argument is dictatorship by judges, exercising unlimited power over life and death

Maybe we need to re-draft the Constitution. It says that in life and death situations, the decisions are up to the state courts. They did that for a reason way back then. It was so no "King" could say..."off with your head".....as happened, as we know, so many times in England, even to some of their Queens.

However, our forefathers wanted to guard against such tyrany. So then, as per our Constitution, after a case is heard in the local Courts, it goes to appeals Courts, and then the Supreme Court.....

Obviously, along the way, something went drastically wrong. I'm sure it's not what our forefathers would have ever in their wildest dreams expected.

But it is the law of our land, and until it's changed, our elected officials have to abide by it.

In my opinion, we should change things with our votes, and get Conservative judges elected. I plan to work locally to make sure this happens.

Do you?

71 posted on 03/30/2005 7:57:10 PM PST by LisaMalia (Today is the first day...of the rest of our lives, hopefully Terri's as well.....)
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To: pickrell
I see what you mean. But does this not, in the end, rely on the Judiciary to police itself?

When one discusses checks and balances, that implies that one branch will assert superiority over another.

Governor pardons, legislature impeaches.

This case is a real problem for the judiciary, if the public comes to review the evidence and disagree with the conclusion (as I have). It's easy (natural) for the media to confuse the facts and the public, but this case is pretty compelling on the surface, to lots of observers. It has staying power in the media, and will be discussed.

What is apt to occur is a serious diminution of respect for the judiciary. THe judiciary holds itself out as being "for justice," and if is popularly viewed as perpetrating a systematic failure (not just at one court, but across several; not just with money, but with a person's life), it will lose power. Power depend on the consent of the judged, too.

Lawyers will dicker over the legal tools to fix the proble (e.g., there was a big rearrangemnt of "insanity" after Hinkley got off on that defense), and will come up with an imperfect solution.

In the legal sense, this one is tough partly because it is life/death in a civil setting; and civil courts are not equipped to deal with stakes that high. Too bad they won't admit it.

72 posted on 03/30/2005 7:57:31 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: watchdog_writer

Off the top of my head: Augustine, Aquinas, Acts of the Apostles (Peter), Leo XIII, Pius XI, Pius XII, Paul VI, John Paul II, Vatican II (Gaudium et Spes), the Nuremberg Tribunal, the Declaration of Independence. Will send more.


73 posted on 03/30/2005 8:00:42 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: bjs1779

"We just just ain't got anyone with balls enough to do it."


Ahhhhhhhhhh now I understand . . . this is just a testosterone-induced 'my appendage is bigger than your appendage' debate -- rationallity and rule of law be damned!


74 posted on 03/30/2005 8:01:28 PM PST by DrDeb
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To: watchdog_writer
Employ? did you mean to say elect?

No I specifically used the word employ. It is sad that they sometimes forget, but these people are employees of the people. The elections process is just the selection mechanism that we use to choose from among the many candidates.

Why are they misinformed? - MSM - NYTimes, Washington Post, Los Angles Times, Boston Globe, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, shall I continue are do you get the point?

The main stream media is part of an entertainment system. The people who should be informing us are our elected politicians. If they feel that the media is interfering with free speech; then it is up to them to take appropriate action. The only reason that we are enslaved to the latest poll results, is because our elected officials give them credence by reacting as though they had value and conveyed mandate. That is simply not the case.
75 posted on 03/30/2005 8:03:18 PM PST by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Arthur McGowan
Oh you are talking about religion and philosophy! I was asking what legal authority you have? I agree with in principle, my point is that we are a nation of laws, and I do not know of any law that was violated by putting Terri to death. Of course it goes without saying that you and I are on the same side of the moral issue.

My suggestion is that we fight to elect pro-life judges so atrocities like this will not happen.

Terri's death will not be in vain if voters are awakened to the truth, which is that our judiciary is corrupt.
76 posted on 03/30/2005 8:08:39 PM PST by watchdog_writer
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To: DrDeb
rationallity and rule of law be damned!

Our government operates through a democratic process, to enforce the will of the people. We are not govern through edict; the rule of law is only valid so long as it reflects the political will.
77 posted on 03/30/2005 8:12:08 PM PST by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: watchdog_writer

Great rant, well stated. I'm with you on this.


78 posted on 03/30/2005 8:15:21 PM PST by arasina (So there.)
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To: ARCADIA
The elections process is just the selection mechanism that we use to choose from among the many candidates.

let's choose conservative pro-life legislators like Rick Santorum Voters gave President Bush a clear victory in Tuesday's elections, but they also sent a handful of new pro-life lawmakers to the U.S. Senate. As a result, they helped shore up the votes the president will need to confirm new judges to federal courts -- including the ever-important Supreme Court.

79 posted on 03/30/2005 8:16:44 PM PST by watchdog_writer
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To: watchdog_writer

Well, the Nuremberg Tribunal didn't just talk religion and philosophy. They executed people.


80 posted on 03/30/2005 8:21:14 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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