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Jeb Bush - Damned if you do - Damned if you don't
March 30, 2005 | watchdog_writer

Posted on 03/30/2005 6:44:50 PM PST by watchdog_writer

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To: Howlin; Ed_NYC; MonroeDNA; widgysoft; Springman; Timesink; dubyaismypresident; Grani; coug97; ...
Thank you. I just wish that those who keep insulting others on FR for not supporting the "at any cost" emotional mindset that has run rampant across FR would allow civilized dissent.

Just damn.

If you want on the list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...

41 posted on 03/30/2005 7:20:32 PM PST by mhking (If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball!)
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To: mhking

I echo your sentiments. This is out of control.


42 posted on 03/30/2005 7:22:49 PM PST by texasflower ("America's vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one." President George W. Bush 01/20/05)
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To: watchdog_writer
Thank you.

I am sick to death of hearing the hysteria of Randall Terry and his followers directed at Jeb.

43 posted on 03/30/2005 7:23:09 PM PST by Jorge
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To: Wonder Warthog
"The way the system works is that the legislature passes laws, the Governor executes then until the courts declare them to be unconstitutional."

unfortunately that is the way it works I wish it were not so; however, if voters were properly educated, instead of being misinformed by the MSM, perhaps they would insist upon judges who are faithfully discharging the duties of their office. Has it escaped your attention that the Supreme Court by declaring laws unconstitutional is legislating from the bench, and their laws do not reflect the will of the majority. Make sure that President Bush's nomination are approved.

44 posted on 03/30/2005 7:23:13 PM PST by watchdog_writer
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To: watchdog_writer
The buck doesn't stop with the courts. The buck stops with a civilized people who should never stand for the barbaric starvation of an innocent human being under a false cloak of legalism.

Those are the arguments of systematic murderers such as those of the Third Reich.

Corrupt judges and courts have been ordering barbaric atrocities throughout history and they must be made to kneel to a higher moral law by the enraged people themselves.

Only barbarians would starve someone like this and no legal justification will ever exist to slowly and painfully starve a human being to death.

Such barbaric action is beyond humanity and deserves the full measure of loathing by moral and righteous people.

These are the rulings of despots and tyrants who think of humans as disposable subjects, beneath the value of animals.

The sickness and depravity of this murder is unveiled by the simple question: If a court has ruled this woman must die, why is she not to be killed swiftly and humanely? Even mass murderers cannot be starved to death. There is not a soul in America who does not know starvation is a death sentence, clearly in the category of "cruel and unusual punishment."

She would die more swiftly being drawn and quartered.

Terri Schiavo cannot find enough humanity left in the legal system of the United States to merit the swift death of a mass murderer.

This is not a law demanding allegiance. It is pure evil.

A rule of law built upon, and justifying, evil acts cannot hold a society together. It will tear a society to pieces.

We richly deserve our destruction and we will see it.

45 posted on 03/30/2005 7:23:21 PM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: watchdog_writer
you know how misinformed the average voter is.

That is precisely why we employ, at great expense to ourselves, professional politicians to keep an eye on things. There will always be uninformed voters; none of us are in a position to keep track of the nuances of so vast a system.
46 posted on 03/30/2005 7:24:22 PM PST by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Dark Knight
>>>I really don't blame Jeb for this, but he did sign the rule including food/hydration withdrawl as life support.

I'm sure he had no idea...

But he cannot intervene now, on a law he signed. <<<<

Yeah he did sign the law allowing this to happen, a bill that Felos heavily lobbied for and got.
47 posted on 03/30/2005 7:25:02 PM PST by snarkytart (You're Gutless. You're Undressed.)
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To: Arthur McGowan
Any "law" or set of "laws" or court orders, etc., that result in the murder of an innocent woman, are null.

I'd be very interested in seeing what authority you can cite for your position? Which is not to say that I believe that any such law should be constitutional. In this case the law is constitutional, it was how that law was interpreted by Judge Greer that has resulted in injustice. Did you read Ambassador Keyes' article? If so what is his constitutional authority for his position?

48 posted on 03/30/2005 7:26:50 PM PST by watchdog_writer
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To: pickrell
They have the power to issue contempt of court judgements

Who or what, do you think will enforce those; other then the executive branch?
49 posted on 03/30/2005 7:28:05 PM PST by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: etcetera
Argue the law and constitutionality after safeguarding Terri's life. While the parties argue, Terri slips toward an irreversible end. Move her from her husband's and his lawyer's control. Restore her feeding tube. Then argue all you want.

Maybe you can form a militia? As bad as we think his decision was, Judge Greer has the constitutional authority to make it. We are responsible for electing him, we are to blame. We have the right to vote him out of office and see to it that a conservative judge take his place.

50 posted on 03/30/2005 7:30:52 PM PST by watchdog_writer
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To: BCrago66
If you don't really have anything new to say, maybe you should cut back on the vanities.

I'll give your suggestion some serious consideration. Thank you for your opinion.

51 posted on 03/30/2005 7:32:47 PM PST by watchdog_writer
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To: Howlin

You want to ping him, or shall I? :)


52 posted on 03/30/2005 7:33:49 PM PST by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: bvw
he would must definitely be in dereliction of higher duty of law

That "higher law" being defined by you, of course. And your kind. Who needs the Constitution when we have those who believe in a "higher law?"

53 posted on 03/30/2005 7:34:15 PM PST by freedumb2003 (First you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women (HJ Simpson))
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To: bjs1779
So did the Bolsheviks. What was their intention? To murder, or save life.

lawlessness, chaos, and revolution. I will concede that we have a constitutional crises, but we need to become more active and vote out of office every liberal judge and every liberal politician in office.

54 posted on 03/30/2005 7:35:17 PM PST by watchdog_writer
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To: watchdog_writer
BRAVO !
55 posted on 03/30/2005 7:37:25 PM PST by nopardons
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To: William Creel

Back in the 30's during alot of the gangster trials the buck stopped there. Right in the judges pocket and still goes on now. There is a lot of corruption down there in the good ole boy city.


56 posted on 03/30/2005 7:37:28 PM PST by Nightshift (judge greer: legally blind and blind legally)
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To: William Creel
Thanks for the ping! Sanity needs very much to be injected into the postings here.
57 posted on 03/30/2005 7:38:21 PM PST by nopardons
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To: watchdog_writer
Maybe you can form a militia?

If he does, then what, would that be lawful or prudent solution to the crisis?
58 posted on 03/30/2005 7:38:29 PM PST by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: pickrell
The only certain check is the power of the Governor to pardon. How can this apply to civil issues?

Actually, besides the pardon, there is prosecutorial discretion as well. E.g., the acriminal adultery statute in Florida is enforced rarely, if at all.

Civil courts only carry out money judgements. They don't incarceraate or condemn criminals. In this case, the court holds itself out as follwing the patient's wishes. As we can see, there is not much of a hurdel to find the pateint's wisehs, and if that finding is incorrect (either way), it stands review by higher courts, provided the process is followed.

This is a "case" of first immpression, with the combination of life/death in a civil trial (which usually only divides money up among the contestants) and an entrenched judiciary that may have commited factual error. Very interesting times indeed. I suspect, FWIW, that there are civil trial swhere the appellate court does in fact review the evidence. Especially where the judgement is in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Couldn't cite one, but additures, remitteurs, and reversals must, maybe one in a thousand, hinge on the facts and not on the law. I think the reversl of punitiva award in the McDonald's Coffee-burn case hinged on a review of the evidence.

59 posted on 03/30/2005 7:40:18 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: ARCADIA
You make a good point, but the problems seems to be that there will always be a percentage of the City, County, State or Federal government employees who will be willing to enforce such judgements.

At least to a neophyte in the judicial arena like me, I would have to ask myself, can I take the chance? Sure, in a case like this where there is a life involved, people demand that the executive branch grab their cojones and stand fast. Emotions are running high. But a growing power to financially ruin those who would oppose the Black Robes seems to me to be the most serious threat of this whole issue.

60 posted on 03/30/2005 7:41:56 PM PST by pickrell (Old dog, new trick...sort of)
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