Terri Schiavo's 2002 CT scan

MSNBC ^ | 3 29 05 | msnbc dan abrams interview

[flixxx]

TRANSCRIPT Updated: 4:04 p.m. ET March 29, 2005 The overwhelming majority in the medical community say Terri Schiavo has close to no brain activity and has no chance of regaining awareness. Dr. Ronald Cranford, who actually examined Terri Schiavo in 2002 and testified to her condition, joined "The Abrams Report" on Monday. Cranford is the assistant chief of neurology at the Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis as well as a faculty member at the University of Minnesota's Center for Bioethics. Below is the transcript of their conversation.

DAN ABRAMS, HOST: You're one of the few people who has actually examined Terri Schiavo and you're hearing all of these people who are coming on from the sidelines saying, "She's has been misdiagnosed," et cetera. How confident are you in your diagnosis and why?

DR. RONALD CRANFORD, UNIV. OF MN NEUROLOGIST: I'm extremely confident. I think at the time of the trial in 2002 there had been eight neurologists who examined her. And of those eight neurologists total, seven of them said beyond any doubt whatsoever Terri is in a vegetative state. Her CT scan shows severe atrophy or shrinkage of the brain. Her EEG is flat and there's absolutely no doubt that she's been in a permanent vegetative state ever since 1990. There's no doubt whatsoever, Dan.

[hershey]

True, but some are already talking about possible future benefits of stem cell research, etc..

[Nightshift]

Guess you missed post #16. looks almost the same as Terri's. What do you to say about that scan?

[lil'bit]

You're mistaken. There is something in her files saying that she speaks and says the word "STOP".

It's at the bottom of page 2 here:http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schiavo-exam-1990.pdf

[Steel Wolf]

Good of you to try and post some more facts, but you're wasting your breath. 99% of the people looking at those photos are getting nothing more out of them then, 'Hmm, dark spaces on that one'. People don't know what they're looking at, so they see what they want to see. You may as well have posted two Rorschach test ink blots.

It's an article of faith around here that Terri is fine, her doctors are all wrong, she's being snuffed out to cover up years of abuse and attempted murder by Michael, and to fund a secret cabal of greedy death cultists. Unless you've got a WND or NewsMax article that backs up that assertion, don't expect a lot of support.

[Puddleglum]

Cranford? Read this, too:

http://www.sffaith.com/ed/articles/1998/0398ws.htm

On that CT scan, and comparison of the images posted? Read here:

http://codeblueblog.blogs.com/codeblueblog/

---

Very interesting links, especially the second one. Thanks for posting these.

[tutstar]

I saw a post somewhere else that said the scans shown on Greta's show one night were definitely not the same angle.the one the left was a top view and the scan they had on the right was from another angle and showed the sinus and eye cavities clearly.

I read an article yesterday about a very intelligent young man who has less brain mass than what is considered normal, something like 7%. I just tried to find it but I can't.

Also there is a thread here about one of our freepers who has part of the brain missing and just as normal as the next person.

[verity]

I can only conclude that you are a part of a major conspiracy designed to obfuscate opinion with facts.

[Griptilian]

Her parents stand to gain more, especially if they drag this out longer. Just adds pages to a book, minutes to a movie.

I've seen Terri referred to as the 'cash puppet' [for her parents].
They made this a media circus and now they only stand to gain financially. By dragging their puppet through every radio\TV network, and making weak arguments before courts; the headlines only equate to big bux.

Add to all of that the villains they created; husband, judge, lawyer, etc - all while making sure they don't tell the facts involved during the first four years so people's opinion don't realize Michael did everything he could to get her help. Even Hannity is calling for Terri to have an MRI, even though it could kill her. The disinformation coming from the parents and those who follow them like fools, are just lining their pockets.

It goes right along with their motive (10 years ago) to get their hands on the [trust] money set aside for Terri's care. Did Glenn Beck tell you about that?? _NO!

[avile]

While there is substantial atrophy on her scan as is typical in an elderly Alzheimer's patient, it is very inappropriate to show as the normal a section from a different level in the brain.
apples should be compared to apples. either show her original versus the latest (at the same anatomic level in the brain or a normal at the same level) Time mag did the same thing.

[avile]

you are 100%correct -you just passed the radiology boards -neuro section.
Her brain is highly atrophic ,but the plane of section is different.

[John Valentine]

You are jerking peoples chains for some sort of perverted pleasure. From the tone and content of your posts, I have concluded that you are far from serious.

I suspect I am not alone in that judgement.

Adios.

[avile]

ct on left-obstructive hydrocephalus with a vp shunt.
ct on right-severe atrophy aka hydrocephalus ex vacuo- ? with a vp shunt

[raygun]

Vastly differing pathology here. This is hydroencephalopathy (or enlargement of the ventricals). Terri's CT shows more holoencephalophathy - a profound attrophy of white matter).

Niether does it seem the patient in your post have the severe degree of trans-temporal occiptial lobe white matter atrophy compared to Terri Schiavo. Its important to understand that white matter is the brain's circuitry. A simplistic analogy is that white matter is the highway system that connects the information centers of the brain, allowing information to be processed.

Disorders of the occipital lobe can cause visual hallucinations and illusions. Visual hallucinations (visual images with no external stimuli) can be caused by lesions to the occipital region or temporal lobe seizures. Visual illusions (distorted perceptions) can take the form of objects appearing larger or smaller than they actually are, objects lacking color or objects having abnormal coloring. Lesions in the parietal-temporal-occipital association area can cause word blindness with writing impairments (alexia and agraphia) (Kandel, Schwartz & Jessell, 1991).

A study was done to analyze the effect of white matter lesions in different brain regions on regional cortical glucose metabolism, regional cortical atrophy, and cognitive function in a sample with a broad range of cerebrovascular disease and cognitive function. Patients were recruited to study subcortical ischemic vascular disease (SIVD).

Volumetric measures of MRI segmented white matter signal hyperintensities (WMH) in five different brain regions were related to regional PET glucose metabolism (rCMRglc) in cerebral cortex, MRI measures of regional cortical atrophy, and neuropsychological assessment of executive and memory function.

It was found that WMH was significantly higher in the prefrontal region compared to the other brain regions. In all subjects, higher frontal and parietal WMH were associated with reduced frontal rCMRglc, whereas occipitotemporal WMH was only marginally associated with frontal rCMRglc. These associations were stronger and more widely distributed in nondemented subjects where reduced frontal rCMRglc was correlated with WMH for all regions measured. In contrast, there was no relationship between WMH in any brain region and rCMRglc in either parietal or occipitotemporal regions. WMHs in all brain regions were associated with low executive scores in nondemented subjects.

What was concluded from the study was that the frontal lobes are most severely affected by SIVD. While WMHs were found to be more abundant in the frontal region, regardless of where in the brain WMHs are located, however, they are associated with frontal hypometabolism and executive dysfunction.

Interestingly enough though, an MRI is not absolutely necessary to assess brain death (and so thalmic implant extraction - and risk of death - wouldn't be required). The absence of intracranial blood flow could be documented on CT angiography and confirmed by CT perfusion images. Cerebral angiography could confirmed findings consistent with brain death. CT angiography with CT perfusion could represent a rapid noninvasive method for diagnosis of brain death.

[The_Reader_David]

"Right to Privacy = Right to Commit Murder".

Very perceptive. Isn't it perverse that the so called right to privacy is the basis for abortion and the killing of Terri Schaivo, but hasn't actually reinforced or expanded any of the constitutional protections from who 'penumbrae' it 'emantes'? In each case lots of people are involved--the mother, the father, the abortionist, the child; Michael Schiavo, the hospice workers, judges and lawyers, Terri--but the government can still issue a no-knock warrant and send jack-booted thugs to haul you off to prison if you have a marijauna garden in your basement and only smoke the stuff in the privacy of your own home, arguably a much more private act than either an abortion or the judicial murder we still pray can be averted.

[Diogenesis]

" 9. Between September 1939 and April 1945 the defendants Karl Brandt, Blome, Brack, and Hoven unlawfully, willfully, and knowingly committed war crimes, as defined by Article II of Control Council Law No. 10, in that they were principals in, accessories to, ordered, abetted, took a consenting part in, and were connected with plans and enterprises involving the execution of the so-called "euthanasia" program of the German Reich in the course of which the defendants herein murdered hundreds of thousands of human beings, including nationals of German-occupied countries. This program involved the systematic and secret execution of the aged, insane, incurably ill, of deformed children, and other persons, by gas, lethal injections, and diverse other means in nursing homes, hospitals, and asylums. Such persons were regarded as "useless eaters" and a burden to the German war machine. The relatives of these victims were informed that they died from natural causes, such as heart failure. German doctors involved in the "euthanasia" program were also sent to Eastern occupied countries to assist in the mass extermination of Jews."

[ Count 2, section 9, of the indictment in "the Doctor's Trial" at the Nuremberg war crimes trial;
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum ]

HEALTHFUL DRINKS WITH WARM MEALS SINCE THE ORDER-TO-MURDER-AN-INVALID BY JUDGE GREER
Scumbag Torturer and Murderer-At-Will Pinellas County Judgenfuhrer Greer ..... 55
..................................................................... Terri Shiavo 0
...................................................................... Lee Malvo 48
................................................................. Scott Peterson 47

[T'wit]

Why don't you write a book about the case? You certainly have a... unique... theory.

[Ethrane]

"I've read a lot of his court testimony and a few interviews but I haven't seen that quote. Where was it from?"

Ummm.....from the link to the entire interview that this post was based on (not just the excerpted part provided).

Did you not read it?

[Ethrane]

In the absense of such alternatives, though, even a 95% probability of aspiration and a 2% probability of success should not disqualify the attempt.

You've got to be kidding me. After three failed attempts, had they forced another swallow test and her body aspirated the liquid, they'd face a possible malpractice suit.

Have you seen the official results of her swallowing tests? If you have, I'd like a link if you have it.

I think his point is that without any nutrition or hydration as ordered by Judge Greer, at this point, without eating her probability of death is 100%.

I really do not understand the inability for everyone to understand this basic point:

If we do not provide her with any source of nutrition, she WILL absolutely die, vs. if we take out her feeding tube (in accordance with the state law) and allow her to try and survive by feeding her orally, she will in all likelihood die.

If you were playing Russian roulette, would you rather play with a revolver with no empty chambers or with one empty chamber and take your chances?

[Luke Skyfreeper]

Uh...he's a Quack. He wasn't given a VALID Nobel prize nomination.

I discovered that late last night. And that's a definite disappointment for me. It changes my perception of the whole case.

I still come down on the same side of things. But I do have to say that suddenly it's not quite so clear-cut.

[DBeers]

The CT Scan - Proof of PVS? A $100,000 Challenge

March 30, 2005

The CT Scan - Proof of PVS? A $100,000 Challenge

Terri Schiavo's CT Scan has been grossly misrepresented in the mainstream press.

Previously, Codeblue applied his expertise in radiology to interpret Terri Schiavo's CT scans that have been released to the public and are being used in a public relations campaign to justify her starvation:

The most alarming thing about this image, however, is that there certainly is cortex left. Granted, it is severely thinned, especially for Terri's age, but I would be nonplussed if you told me that this was a 75 year old female who was somewhat senile but fully functional, and I defy a radiologist anywhere to contest that.

I HAVE SEEN MANY WALKING, TALKING, FAIRLY COHERENT PEOPLE WITH WORSE CEREBRAL/CORTICAL ATROPHY. THEREFORE, THIS IS IN NO WAY PRIMA FACIE EVIDENCE THAT TERRI SCHIAVO'S MENTAL ABILITIES OR/OR CAPABILITIES ARE COMPLETELY ERADICATED. I CANNOT BELIEVE SUCH TESTIMONY HAS BEEN GIVEN ON THE BASIS OF THIS SCAN.

Today he responds to the neurologists that both the courts and MSM have relied upon to interpret images of Terri's brain with a $100,000 challenge:

Here's the problem with these experts: THEY DON'T INTERPRET CT SCANS OF THE BRAIN. RADIOLOGISTS DO. ...

What I'm saying is that Terri Schiavo's CT could be the brain of an eighty or ninety year old person who is not in a vegetative state. THOSE are the CT scans we should be showing next to Schiavo's, because in THAT case you would see similar atrophy and a brain much closer to Schiavo's.

Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?

To prove my point I am offering $100,000 on a $25,000 wager for ANY neurologist (and $125,000 for any neurologist/bioethicist) involved in Terri Schiavo's case--including all the neurologists reviewed on television and in the newspapers who can accurately single out PVS patients from functioning patients with better than 60% accuracy on CT scans.

I will provide 100 single cuts from 100 different patient's brain CT's. All the neurologist has to do is say which ones represent patients with PVS and which do not.

If the neurologist can be right 6 out of 10 times he wins the $100,000.

I Said What I Meant, And I Meant What I Said

My points are what I first said about the image from Terri Schiavo's CT scan:

1. It is NOT as bad as the neurologists and bioethicists play it up to be; and,

2. There are many elderly patients with various levels of mental functioning who have severe atrophy that is difficult to distinguish from Terri Schiavo's atrophy

I stand by what I said. And I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

Any takers?