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To: RusIvan; RussianBoor; jb6; ms_68; twinself

You know folks what's going on here--the competition of Russian and Polish Chauvinisms and the truth is lost.

First, the talk that Poland (Polish-Lithuanian Kingdom) "never took foreign land" is ridiculous. Poland as any other power in history took from the weak, conquered it and joined it to its own territory. I.e. Polish king Kazimir took by force the City of L'vov in early 14th century and Lithuanian Prince took Kiev sometime in 1356. The Polish Lithuanian Union started I believe in 1389 when Polish King Kazimir and Lithuanian Prince Jagailo married their children. Then the union was formalized in Lublin 1569. The Moscow Kingdom later renamed Russian Empire did exactly the same thing--expanded its territory often through force or by other means.

Polish-Lithuanian and Russian rivalry over the present land of Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania dates back to 14th century after Poland-Lithuania expanded its dominion over the land of old Kievan Rus. For instance, Kiev (or Kyiv in Ukrainian) originally was a capital of medieval confederations of kingdoms called Kievan Rus in 9-13th Centuries which was predecessor to Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. Then it was conquered by Mongol-Tatar kingdom in mid 13th century. Then Poland-Lithuania took it in 14th Century. Roughtly mid 14-th to mid 17th centuries was a peak for Poland-Lithuania when it was from Baltic to Black Sea. In 15th Century Grand Duchy of Moscow began its own major expansion. In 1471-1478 Moscow Duke Ivan III (the Great) defeated Novgorod Republic (modern Russian North from Novgorod to Ural Mountains) and make it part of Moscow Rus (Grand Duchy of Moscow)--the Future Russian Empire. In 1648, Ukrainian Cossack leader (hetman) Bogdan Khmelnitski started uprising against Polish-Lithuanian Rule in present Left Bank Ukraine. The uprising was bloody and he asked for help from Moscow Ruler (Czar) Fedor for help. Khmelnitski thought that under 1654 arrangement Ukraine will become independent under Moscow Protectorate, however, Moscow had different plans and gradually ended sovereignty of Ukraine about century later.

Definitely Russia/USSR and Nazi Germany became temporary allies in 1939-1941 when they carved up post WWI Poland and Baltic States between themselves. It's shameful Period for Both Nazi Germany and Russia/USSR. However, on June 22, 1941 Germany attacked USSR and 4 year war ensued in which nearly 30,000,000 Russian/Soviet Citizens perished.

Simply speaking--the Polish dreams of Polish-Lithuanian kingdom restored in any way in its historically largest form, or Russian government dream of Restoring USSR/Russian Empire are dangerous fantasies that should be forever "BURIED". Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania are now separate countries and they should respect each other borders (however, they come into existence historically).


74 posted on 04/01/2005 9:30:34 AM PST by sergey1973 (Russian American Political Blogger, Arm Chair Strategist)
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To: sergey1973

or Russian government dream of Restoring USSR/Russian Empire are dangerous fantasies that should be forever "BURIED". ==

Serge you may be confident about russian goverment that days of Empire is over.
If anyone noticed it was Rusian Federation which declared Independence from USSR and by this act destroyed soviet empire (and fred all other nations like ukranians, bellorussians and so on).


79 posted on 04/01/2005 10:25:13 AM PST by RusIvan
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