Posted on 03/29/2005 8:42:48 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
Thanks for letting me know. I suppose you won't talk to anyone who challenges you with reasonable arguments and separates historical facts from fiction. Just curious, did you even read my posts ? Did I insult you or the Poles anywhere ? Did I deny that Stalinist Russia/USSR commited crimes against Poland ? Did I deny that pre-Soviet Imperial Russia was also an oppresive power, including for Poles ? I suppose you don't like that I mention that Poland at one time was also an Imperial power who expanded it's territory through force of Arms like any other major power in the world including Russia . I suppose you wanted to hear that Poland just appeared out of thin Air--the nice and cuddly angel out of post-card rather then hearing what really happened in history.
Anyway, If you think you insulted me, you are wrong. You simply shown yourself as incapable of handling rational counter arguments. Instead you chose insults based on national and ethnic background. You should be ashamed of yourself, especially if you think you are a Catholic Christian. The whole world mourns the loss of the greatest Pole and the greatest Catholic Christian--Pope John Paul II--who called for brotherly love toward all people regardless of ethnic, national or religious or racial background. Of course, nobody is asking you to be like John Paul II. There are people who truly deserve the righteous hatred. Also nobody is asking you to approve everything that jb6 and a few other Russian or Russian American folks said here. I strongly disapprove some of their statements too. But you chose to spit in face of someone who did nothing to attack you or the Poles and who ACTUALLY RECOGNIZED that Russia committed crimes toward Poland. You chose to attack someone who did NOTHING bad toward any of the Poles or the Poland--in fact who did nothing bad or reprehensible toward anybody. You chose to attack someone simply because of his ethnic/national background. You chose to attack someone who simply gave you historical facts about Poland and Russia. It's so PATHETIC and DISGUSTING that I even surprised how anyone can claim himself/herself Catholic with such views in light of John Paul II life. Anyway, have a nice time talking to yourself then and anyone who cares to listen.
"Just because you're not partners to talks to civilized people with your Nazi ideology of 'Vielikaruskich zachvatchikov'"
Where do you find a "Nazi Ideology" 'Vielikaruskich zachvatchikov' in any of my posts ? Example ? Also if you are curious, I've never been in Soviet Army either on the streets of Poland or anywhere else. Me and my parents left Russia/fmr. USSR long time ago and we are American Citizens now.
By the way, it's my (and a few hundreds of thousands of other Russian American) Taxpayer money too that supported Poland and all other recepients of US Foreign Aid at one time or another in the last 12 years.
Anyway, no use talking to you. Talk to yourself--to "Civilized".
I never insulted you and sorry if I offended you ms_68. Still, you are right. The putin lovers just cannot accept that the Soviet Union is dead and the fact that Putin is losing big time.
No problem.
BTW, to clarify Paul, I'm NOT a Putin Supporter. I'm sure you didn't mean me when you talked about Putin Supporters, but I just do not want to be included in Putin fan list inadvertently. Quite the opposite--I consider Putin a yet another Russian tragedy and shame.
However, I don't like when someone on Free Republic says something like "I don't talk to Russians" even if there are normal Russians or Americans of Russian background like myself with some knowledge of History of the region. This is a clear ethnic bigotry--plain and simple and I have a BIG problem with it.
I don't accept lame explanations whether ms_68 had in mind "Native Russians" but not Americans with Russian background or just anyone of Russian origin. I never attack people for their ethnicity or national origin--only when their political views are clearly and morally wrong in face of Historical facts.
I simply want us to have intelligent arguments where facts are properly separated from fiction. ms_68 said that Poland never "took a foreign land" in its history. I simply pointed out to certain aspects of the history of Poland and Russia to show that at some point in history (esp 14th-17th century), both Poland-Lithuania and Russia were major imperial powers in Europe fighting over the territory they both considered theirs and expanding militarily, often at each other expense. ms_68 also mentioned simply that Soviet Union was "Nazi Ally". I pointed out that in 1939-till early 1941 USSR and Nazi Germany became in fact a temporary allies. In fact Stalin and Hitler apparently have separate plans--Stalin wanted to Spread its version of Communism to Western Europe and beyond while Hitler wanted to spread Nazism and Nazi Germany to the east. These two terrible monsters and mass murderers happen to temporary become buddies carving up Poland and Baltics. However, afterwards starting on June 22, 1941 when Hitler launched operation "Barbarossa" against Russia/USSR), they became mortal enemies and about 30,000,000 lives of Russian/Soviet Citizens were lost in a war against Nazi Germany. This is something that should NOT be ommitted from History.
These historical facts are in no way justification of Terrible Crimes of Stalin and post-Stalin Russia/USSR toward Poland during WWII and afterwards and all other places that fell under Stalin and Russian/Soviet Communists after WWII.
Well you seem to forget that there was this thing called the Hitler-Stalin Pact until Hitler betrayed it, overconfident that he could win the war on his own.==
It was Soviet Union for once. And it was in between 1939-41. And the pact yopu mentioned was called the "Non-Agression Pact". Ther were not words about allience.
It was dedicated to postpone agression of Hitler against Soviet Union. It helped some but as you said Hitler violated it. And at the end Hitler payed for his betrayal.
Any unbiased watcher except of cause polacks may read this pact and find this.
John Paul II wasn't allowed to visit russian catholics by ortodox Aleksyei.==
There are almost no russian catholics. Those who catholic in Russia usually are not russians.
Pope wasn't allowed because he refuse to follow rules for visiting religious leader which are installed in Russia.
Russia has her own christian ordtodox church.
SO if the leader fo different church want to come in Russia he has to come under invitation of patriarch.
Partiarkh Alexus said that Pope refused to regulate some questions which are between 2 churches. So he won't invite him to Russia until it would be regulated.
So as I see it that the stubborness of Pope stopped him to visit Russia.
I've never been in Soviet Army either on the streets of Poland or anywhere else
I meant native Russians, anyway let's stop that fruitless argument.==
Serge, m_68 is just russophobe. BTW he is not very smart either. It is customary when some phobic people isn't very smart. For example it is proved that those who judophobes (the "anti-semites in plain english) are not smart.
If you look into the roots of m_68 russoaphobia you will find that it bases on distortions.
By his words m-68 "hates" ethnic russians or "native russians". Later he said that is because of "occupation" 1945-89 by Soviet Army.
He even don't understand that in Soviet Army there was many ethnicities. Russians was about half.
So m-68 has to "hate" for soviet "occupation" ukranians, bellorussians, georgians, kazakhs, uzbeks and so on along with "native russians".
May be he "hates" Stalin, Nikita Hruschev and Leonid Brezhnev who was leaders of Soviet Union?
The first as m_68 admitted issued the order to shoot those polish officers in Katyn.
I agree if m_68 hates those people.
BUT.. For our wonder and amusement all 3 aboves are NOT ethnic russians at all!
SO m_68 have not a reason to "hate" them since he "hates" only "native russians"! He probably has to "love" them since they belongs to Georgia and Ukraine.
Isn't it sweet?:))))
You murdered too many
Russians,
Ukrainians,
Jews,
Germans(Polish attrocities against Germans in 1945 are one of the best kept secrets of WWII)
to have the right to preach to anybody.
Yeah right, and don't forget Knights of Teutonic Order, Mongols and Turks.
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