CODEBLUEBLOG ANALYZES TERRI SCHIAVO'S CT OF THE BRAIN THIS BRAIN IS NOT THAT BAD

CSI Medbogs ^ | 03-25-05 | WL-Law

[petro45acp]

So, are you saying that even with a flat-lined EEG, there could still be cogitation? Left lobe Right lobe interaction?
Learning?

[beyond the sea]

However I did have to search a bit for a pic that wouldn't scare any children.

LOL!

[massgopguy]

Judge Greer needs to destroy the evidence in the Medicaid Fraud scheme that he is knee deep in. HHS should issue a Cease and Desist Order while they prosecute Suncoast Hospice and its Board of Directors.

[Diogenesis]

A bowl of jello puts out a pseudoEEG signal. Sounds like the leads were not attached.

Also, FWIW, CO2 in excess makes the EEG flat, too. [beware dry ice inhalers]

[WL-law]

I'm saying I don't believe the EEG, and the PET scan would provide real solid data and "proof".

[philomath]

saw it.

now i understand what you're saying about the sidedness. the writing on the film is reversed so we are getting a top-down (looking from above the head toward the feet) view.

i agree with you: this scan in and of itself doesn't tell us much about whether terri is conscious in any sense.

problem i have with PET is that detractors would say that lighted-up areas are part of reflex circuits only. however, if language, motor, or premotor areas lit up, we would have strong evidence of consciousness.

agree also on the severity of injury: i have seen scans looking worse than this on people who were obviously conscious. is this the new cleansing criterion: starve you if a judge doesn't like the way your ct scan looks??? we aren't on the edge of the slippery slope; we're falling down it......

[glowworm]

Shades of the RatherGate memos.. I just don't trust that any of them are really Terri's but someone simular.. Is there a trail of custody involved.? I guess I have seen medical errors in taking off someone's wrong leg.. And these ppl have a mission.

[little jeremiah]

And I read the exact opposite.

You want to think that the "occupant has left the tent." Well, she's about to leave now, thanks to attitudes such as yours.

[oldcomputerguy]

"An EEG is NOT an accurate tool, by any means, to make this kind of determination. Not even close"

Disregarding PET scans and MRIs, what would a flat-lined cerebral cortex EEG tell you?

[glowworm]

There is a statement that her head may have been bashed in 3 days after she was brought in from the collaspe. Maybe it may show those kind of injurys that are not documented.. that could explain a lot of unknowns.. But then.. I am not a dr.

[Havoc]

You know, this is getting more and more like having a guy argue with you that your car can't be running because on paper it's totalled.. even while he stares at the running vehicle..

[WL-law]

Disregarding PET scans and MRIs, what would a flat-lined cerebral cortex EEG tell you?

There's a principle in law called "the best evidence rule".

Now, it's not about EEGs vrs CAT/PET scans, it's about documents, but there is a similar point to be made in this instance.

The point is this: would you be willing to make a life-or-death decision on less-than-the-best evidence, when the best evidence is available?

Of course not.

Given the range of affidavits and observations from caregivers, I simply refuse to believe the purported EEG results, and would demand corroberation using "the best evidence".

[oldcomputerguy]

"Now, it's not about EEGs vrs CAT/PET scans"

See, here is the problem, you purport to be degreed in the appropriate fields but have completely dodged the question I put to you because, I assume, it doesn't fit your hypothesis.

Lets go back to the original question, what would a flat-lined EEG tell you if it was the only test available, and in this case was the only test of that sort done to my knowledge?

Since you now say you refuse to believe the results I assume the actual reported results contradict your assertion completely.

And another question, since I have an expert like you at my disposal. What test is used to determine brain death in other patients on life support? Is it the EEG that you now disparage in the Schiavo case?

[brewcrew]

THIS BRAIN IS NOT THAT BAD

If it wasn't then, I'm sure it is now. Greer is seeing to that.

[WL-law]

See, here is the problem, you purport to be degreed in the appropriate fields but have completely dodged the question I put to you because, I assume, it doesn't fit your hypothesis.

Look, I defy you to go and read the following facts, laid out in a spreadsheet, and reach a conclusion that ANYTHING being said by Michael Schiavo's side is truthfuul.

Here;s the link:

http://www.zimp.org/stuff/contradictions.htm

What's going on is that there is now an unholy alliance between Michael Schiavo's obvious homicidal motive, on the one hand, and certain players (i.e., Dr Harrison) in the medical field that see the case as a platform to espouse and project their own ideas of managing Terri's demise.

It is Harrison (see the testimony in the link) who makes the read of the EEG -- and I just don't believe him, and moreover the video that I can see with my own eyes contradicts him, and the testimony of many other specialists as well.

PET scanning was in its infancy at that time period (early 90's) so it may not have been considered, and since the early 90's Michael Schiavo has been determined that NO tests, NO rehab, NO attempt to treat infections, be the rule.

[Lijahsbubbe]

Good post.

And even if she was horribly impaired, so what.

I heard one finding saying that she had no room for improvement, so what.

I'm sure at Judge Greer's age, there's no room for improvement either. From here on it's a physical decline for him. Should the starving of Greer begin also?

[Salvation]

BTTT!

[oldcomputerguy]

"It is Harrison (see the testimony in the link) who makes the read of the EEG -- and I just don't believe him,"'

So yet again you have dodged the rather simple question I posed to you about a flatlined EEG. And managed to avoid the second question about which test is used to determine brain death in other patients. While you got an A in English comp, I would have to give you an F in debate.

OK I quit now, on to other things, your postings or lack of them stand on their own.

[WL-law]

a flatlined EEG.

You're tiresome sa well, and I'm being charitable in my description of you.

I'll say it one more time, to address your puny arguments:

1) I don't believe the EEG report in the first place; and

2) in any event such as this one, where there are conflicting reports and contesting parties regarding the evidence, the BEST EVIDENCE should be required.

Whether EEGs are relied on in other situations, i.e., uncontested situations without conflicting parties or conflicting evidence, then less-than-the-best evidence may not raise any objections from the participants. That's irrelevant here.

Oh, by the way, as to your last point, I absolutely ENCOURAAGE you to find "other things" to do -- because if you can rationalize letting Terri die, your opinions on EVERYTHING ELSE are, frankly, forever worthless to me.