Sheer Torture (Why we can't be confident Terri Schiavo is not feeling pain.)

Of all the arguments for the extraordinary effort to keep Terri Schiavo alive, the most powerful has always been that removing her feeding tube and allowing her to starve and dehydrate amounts to torturing her to death. Does it?

In theory, no -- whether or not Schiavo is neurologically capable of feeling pain, which is in dispute. When a feeding tube is removed, pain medicine is administered to stave off hunger pangs and thirst. No pain, no torture. But in the case of Kate Adamson, the author of Kate's Journey: Triumph Over Adversity, something went wrong. After a stroke, Adamson was misdiagnosed as being in a permanent vegetative state, when in fact she was in a "locked-in state," conscious but unable to move. She recovered to tell the tale of what it felt like when her feeding tube was removed so that doctors could perform surgery to remove a bowel obstruction that had developed.

Adamson felt everything, from the starvation and thirst to the surgery itself, for which she was not sufficiently anesthetized. She has described her hunger pangs and thirst as "sheer torture" that went on for days and was "far worse" than the hours she endured abdominal surgery.

Adamson apparently was either not given pain medication, or not given it in a sufficient dose. How could that happen? It happens every day, and not only to patients who are incapable of communicating their discomfort to their doctors. A Brown University study, reported in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 2002, found that 40 percent of nursing home patients with acute or chronic pain nationwide did not get treatment that brought them relief. Also in 2002, a study written by a panel for the National Institutes of Health estimated that between 26% and 41% of cancer patients are inadequately treated for pain.

Dr. Paul Frame of the Rochester University School of Medicine, a member of the NIH panel, pointed to federal and state drug regulations as exacerbating the problem. "Sometimes doctors don't want to go to the hassle of prescribing a triplicate drug," said Frame, referring to the forms that must be filed in many states when strong drugs are prescribed. "They may decide to use something less effective instead."

In 2003 alone, the Drug Enforcement Agency arrested 50 doctors and investigated hundreds more. The most prominent recent case was that of Dr. William Hurwitz, a chronic pain specialist convicted in December of drug trafficking because a small percentage of his patients misused the drugs he prescribed or sold them on the black market; federal prosecutors are seeking a life sentence. Small wonder that doctors are reluctant to treat pain as aggressively as they should. "Physicians' fears of using opioid therapy, and the fears of other health professionals, contribute to the barriers to effective pain management," says the American Medical Association on its website.

The DEA's actions don't just affect the doctors who have to worry about whether they can trust their patients or even the chronic pain sufferers who have trouble finding doctors willing to help them. Remember, even patients in hospitals and nursing homes, many of them on the verge of death, are being undertreated for pain. This isn't a new problem -- it was first identified in the 1970s -- and since at least the mid-'90s experts have urged doctors to be less stingy with synthetic and natural opioids than the conventional wisdom once advised. Surely, they'd have more success if drug warriors weren't sending the opposite message.

Whether or not you think Terri Schiavo ought to be allowed to die, there is no reason for her to die in pain. We can only hope that she is being medicated sufficiently. And if it's your loved one whose pain needs treatment, don't merely hope. Insist.

This provides even more reason for Jeb or George Bush to act to remove Greer and Michael from the case. Terri is not being "allowed" to die. Judge Greer has issued a clearly illegal order that no water or food can be given to Terri even by mouth. This is not just the removal of a feeding tube but this judge has denied a request by her parents to give her water and food naturally! No judge or court has this power and it does not take an attorney to figure this out. I defy anyone to find legal authorization, even in Florida law, for this order.

As is stated in another thread on an article by a doctor (William Anderson) in the Weekly Standard titled "Terri's Last Chance" there is no medical, legal or moral reason to not attempt a trial of natural drinking. He argues all the outcomes of such a trial, even if it results in a quicker death, are better than refusing to allow her to attempt to take food and water on her own. Only Greer's order stops this and such an order is not within the power of a court to make.

Jeb and George Bush should blast Judge Greer out of the water on this illegal order and immediately give her water by mouth. This could allow time to dismiss Greer for violating her human rights by his order and overturn the guardian decision. I fear that everyone is so focused on getting her feeding tube reinserted that they are forgetting to challenge this outrageous and patently illegal order by Greer.

TERRI'S BROTHER SAYS MOVIE "PASSION" CHANGED HIS LIFE

`Passion' Helped Brother Overcome Anger

Mar 25, 2005
By MICHELLE BEARDEN

TAMPA - The anger was eating him up.

For Bobby Schindler, it became almost unbearable; anger at the legal system, his Catholic church and his God. The grueling court battles and legal maneuverings to keep his sister, Terri Schiavo, alive was almost too much to bear for him and his family.

Then last year before Easter, something happened. Schindler went to see the controversial film ``The Passion of the Christ.'' He still tears up when he recalls that turning point.

``I can't begin to tell you the profound effect it had on me,'' says Schindler, 40, his voice breaking. ``After I walked out of there, I re-evaluated everything in my life.''

He went to church on that Good Friday and sat for a long time in prayer. That was the beginning of his journey on the road back to God.

Now, a year later, the Tampa Catholic High School mathematics and science teacher depends on the strength of his renewed faith to carry him in these emotional days. The clock is ticking for his sister, so sleep and food are luxuries he can't afford. The past week has been a blur, from a trip to Tallahassee to lobby politicians to a barrage of media interviews.

He hears the critics who wonder why the Schindlers just can't let Terri go. He doesn't care what they think.

``She's our family,'' he says. ``We're doing everything we can to get her back home with us. If you faced the same circumstances, you'd be doing the same thing.''

He never wanted to be thrust in the public arena and in the media glare. What he likes best is listening to Bruce Springsteen and teaching spinning classes at Harbour Island Athletic Club. In the teacher's lounge at school, he's known for his quick wit.

But much has changed in his life since his older sister suffered a heart attack 15 years ago at age 26 and fell into what doctors call a persistent vegetative state. He hates that term, calling it ``offensive.''

He says it was tough in the beginning to visit her. The siblings had always been close - 13 months apart - and he mourned for the Terri he had lost.

``To see her in that condition ... and realize she could possibly be like that the rest of her life, that wasn't easy,'' Schindler says. ``I've changed a lot. Today, I want nothing more than to take care of her.''

He says his sister is still beautiful to him. He remembers seeing a caption on the infamous video of his mother leaning close in to Terri, getting her to smile - ``The Face That Changed the Nation.'' He says if Terry does die, she has done a lot of good for a lot of people, getting them to talk about issues that needed to be raised.

His life is altered as well. Schindler says he will continue to advocate for the disabled. He knows many people are uncomfortable even looking at disabled people, saying ``it puts mortality at their own doorstep.''

``The way they deal with their fear is to say, `Let her go, let her die, because we don't want to see her in that condition','' he says. ``But that's wrong, We have to take care of them and show compassion. We don't let them starve to death.''

Schindler has read the evaluations and heard testimonies by doctors. Nothing will convince him Terri is not aware of her surroundings. Three years ago, he went to a Springsteen concert in Miami and got to shake his rock hero's hand. He returned home and excitedly recounted that moment to his sister.

He says Terri smiled at the news. And that didn't surprise him: She had given him his first Springsteen album.

``I know she hears me, and she knows what I'm saying to her,'' he says. ``She reacts all the time. It's not random, and it's not reflexive. And there's not a doctor in the world who can tell me otherwise.''

His best friend and fellow teacher, Mark Jacim, says the two talk a lot about their faith. He has watched his friend deal with the worst of circumstances yet avoid falling into self- pity.

``Instead of falling away from God and religion, he dives into it,'' Jacim says. ``And he helps me through my own problems, even though he's got enough of his own. I have nothing but admiration for Bobby.''

This summer, they're going to take a road trip out West. Two good friends, he says, single and on vacation, ``blowing off steam.'' He thinks it will be good for his buddy, no matter the outcome.

Schindler says he knows the outpouring of prayers from around the world have helped Terri and his family. Still, given the circumstances, he doesn't know whether he will feel joy this Easter. What he does know is when Terri's time to die comes, she will go to heaven.

And then, he says, it will be his time to forgive.

``I'll do what I have to do to get through this,'' he says. ``My relationship with God will only get stronger. I won't let anger take over my life.''

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGB7LUNWP6E.html

// Are you referring to the video shot over many hours and edited to a few minutes to show the illusion of conscious life or a different set of videos? //

ah, NO. I'm not. How much you seem to have missed in these MSM talking points.

Michael says she does not feel anything. Do you want to ask him how he knows that? Esp. since she's getting meds for menstrual pain -- as a standing order on her charts? How do I know? through checking things out for myself over the past two years, etc etc etc read my posts if you care to, go to terrisfight.org or anywhere else google takes you, if you care to.

If you have checked things out for yourself to that extent and still feel the way you do, then we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. Funny, years ago, we went through the same things in the same way, point by point on the Waco threads.

I thank God and JimRob -- and people like you, Jeff! -- for FR and our ability to check things out to our hearts and minds content. Back later -- ya'll take care.

Thank you cyn. Let me share some details of my experience with my brother's death last year.

When he entered the hospital for the last time in his three year struggle with lymphoma last year, he was in great pain and under the influence of Oxycotin or Fintinal(sp).

They had him sign a so-called standard DNR (Do not Rescissitate) form when he came in, in a barely conscious state. He couldn't read it, just signed. I got there three days later when it was clear things were very serious.

He was looking terrible. We noticed there was hardly any medication or hydration being given him and we asked what was in his drip and it was a very small amount of saline. We asked why he wasn't receiving more water and nourishment because he was too sick to take it by mouth. We almost exploded when they showed us the DNR and we read the details. The DNR included no hydration and nutrition!

Greg was clearly in distress. His lips were parched and he was already bleeding from the nose. Eyes sunk in. He was very weak when he went in and it did not take long for him to get into that condition.

We immediately ordered, under pain of a possible law suite, for his hydration and nutrition to begin. It did and he improved quickly. He recovered form the initial condition but was still listed as terminal. About three weeks later, just before we were to take him home, he had a bad relapse and passed away 36 hours later.

But those three weeks were a God send for me and my brother Greg...and his other brothers as well. I was taking time off from work so was able to be there almost 24X7 with him. We talked a lot as you can imagine and reminissed. He told me of the pain and discomfort of that dedehydrated. To say that it is painless and euphoric is simply a lie...which anyone with common sense knows.

If they were totally comatose I imagine they would not feel it...but notice they are giving Terri morphine. It is clear they have no idea what she is feeling.

The hospital staff was practising, IMHO, a sort of triage on Greg. They wanted to move him out of there and free up the bed and since he was listed as terminal, the DNR allowed them to "help him along". As you can imagine we had some very direct conversations with those people.

I would not trade those last three weeks of my brothers life for anything. I am afriad this practise is wide spread in our country. People are being dehydrated to death much more than we know.

I pray to God that somehow, someway, somewhere it will be stopped...along with the terrible ill of this judicial tyranny. I pray someone in a position to (liek Jeb Bush) will stand up and use the power available to them to save such people, and to stanbd up directly to this judicial tyranny we are seeing.

I will tell you direct...had a judge ordered us out of there and told the hospital to continue, they would have had a "situation" on their hands as three brothers took over that part of the hospital and did all in their power...up to being willing to die...to prolong their brother's life according to his wishes.

Sorry for the length...I had to get that off my chest.

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