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Presidential Pardon Could Neutralize Judge Greer
Newsmax.com ^ | 3/24/05 | Carl Limacher and Newsmax staff

Posted on 03/24/2005 3:29:58 PM PST by carl in alaska

Legal experts say that if Florida Gov. Jeb Bush defies state judge George Greer and orders state troopers to rescue Terri Schiavo, he and any other officials who participate in such a move risk a contempt citation from Greer that could put them in jail.

But with a powerful ally in the White House, Terri Schiavo's would-be rescuers have nothing to fear from the runaway judge.

In 2001, President Clinton pardoned drug dealers, international money launderers - even FALN terrorists, who were spared in a blatant bid to win votes for his wife's Senate campaign.

The episode taught a bewildered nation that the powers of the president to pardon anyone he wishes are absolute and irrefutable.

Today, Clinton is the most popular American politician in the world and his wife is the frontrunning candidate for her party's presidential nomination. In other words, the Pardongate scandal's lasting political fallout was nil.

He even pardoned his own brother, who had been convicted of selling cocaine.

Should Gov. Bush decide to rescue Terri Schiavo by force in violation of Judge Greer's order, President Bush could do the same for his brother - along with any other officials the right-to-die judge tries to punish.

Would there be controversy? You bet. Would the Bush family's political enemies try to capitalize? Absolutely.

But a nation that forgives one president for pardoning terrorists will certainly forgive another who uses his pardon power to save a life.

Once Terri Schiavo begins to receive the treatment she's been denied for more than a decade, her condition will almost certainly improve. Nurses who have cared for her have already testified she can speak and eat without a feeding tube, in stark contradiction of Judge Greer's findings.

Terri's recovery, however minimal, would serve as powerful evidence that the Bush brothers did the right thing in coming to her rescue.

In the meantime, the nation would be spared the haunting specter of its government starving an innocent citizen to death.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 1perfectcrime; 2killstepbystep; 2killwiththelaw; brilliantmike; courtapprovedmurder; judgegreer; laughing2cremation; newsmaxtabloid; precedent4futurecase; schiavo; stepbystephow2kill; terri; terrischiavo; whosnext
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To: Trust but Verify
As I recall, the nurses affidavits spanned late 2002 and 2003, but since I give them so little credence, I didn't pay a lot of attention to them and I could be wrong, Trust but Verify.

Some of those nurses claimed to have cared for Terri. It seems freepers did not find it astounding that those nurses immediately called the parents to shriek "Eureka. Terri is moving and talking."

The nurses were not subject to cross examination under oath. Anyone can sign an affidavit.
201 posted on 03/25/2005 9:25:38 AM PST by Peach
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To: Peach

Setting aside the veracity of the affadavits, they are not 'new' as so many are claiming.


202 posted on 03/25/2005 9:30:34 AM PST by Trust but Verify (Pull up a chair and watch history being made.)
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To: mysto


I know. Did you see post 172? 178?

People with taglines that invite obvious jabs should not be wasting the time of moderators. They've unfortunately learned to just remove whatever caused the bother and not try to explain what's going on to the people who are crying and don't understand.

That's what I usually do with my small children too. Makes life easier.


203 posted on 03/25/2005 9:32:01 AM PST by spycatcher
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To: Trust but Verify

I do think one or two may have recently come out of the woodwork but for the most part, they are not new.

As well, on some thread, freepers found substantial problems with the seal affixed to affidavits and thought a few of the documents were forged.

There is one nurse, I've forgotten her name, Carly?, who did work as Terri's LPN and she was heard in 2002 by the COurt and found not credible. She was also fired by the nursing home for claiming (wrongly after an investigation) that a nurse was murdering patients.


204 posted on 03/25/2005 9:33:30 AM PST by Peach
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To: Peach

Oh, hadn't heard that last part. If only everyone making these claims weren't just out there for their 15 minutes.


205 posted on 03/25/2005 9:39:12 AM PST by Trust but Verify (Pull up a chair and watch history being made.)
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To: Peach

Well I don't know. I heard the interviews with the two nurses on the Sean Hannity show and they sounded credible to me. They answered his questions quickly with only one long pause to consider an answer. Also their testimony is consistent with Michael Schiavo's decision to kill Terri rather than turn her over to her family for care. That was an exceedingly cruel decision and cruelty is a behavior pattern in people. There's a lot going on in this case and I'm just starting to get this case figured out. I expect that the Schindlers will file a massive wrongful death lawsuit against M. Schaivo and his attorneys, and they will have no problem getting huge financial donations to pay for this lawsuit.


206 posted on 03/25/2005 9:44:24 AM PST by carl in alaska (Blog blog bloggin' on heaven's door.....Teddy's speeches are just one big snore.)
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To: Trust but Verify; Peach

I would not assume that the investigation of the nurse was a fair and unbaisd investigation (not that you're making that assumption.)


207 posted on 03/25/2005 9:49:02 AM PST by carl in alaska (Blog blog bloggin' on heaven's door.....Teddy's speeches are just one big snore.)
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To: spycatcher
If you paid attention to what gets posted on this site on a day-to-day basis, then you would have known that my tagline was a reference to a ZOT post from 2 months ago. My tagline does invite obvious jabs... you just didn't have a clue what it was about until I told you. If you'd been there for the ZOT you would have understood perfectly. You should have been there... it was fun. But then again, ZOT threads are always fun!

"You do ill if you praise, but worse if you censure, what you do not understand." - Leonardo da Vinci

It seems there's more than enough misunderstanding on this thread to go around. You misunderstood my tagline, the mods and I misunderstood you were poking fun at the tagline... why don't we just let it go...

208 posted on 03/25/2005 9:50:16 AM PST by mysto ("I am ZOT proof" --- famous last words of a troll.)
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To: carl in alaska

unbaisd = unbiased (geez, my typing is getting sloppy these days...)


209 posted on 03/25/2005 9:50:52 AM PST by carl in alaska (Blog blog bloggin' on heaven's door.....Teddy's speeches are just one big snore.)
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To: mysto

I understood your tag line right away. You're referring to a previous troll who claimed to be ZOT proof. Geez...that was an easy one.


210 posted on 03/25/2005 9:53:36 AM PST by carl in alaska (Blog blog bloggin' on heaven's door.....Teddy's speeches are just one big snore.)
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To: rockabyebaby

I'm a Christian but I'm sick and tired of hearing Christians say "ITS JUST GOD'S WILL FOR US CHRISTIANS TO JUST LET A RENEGADE RUNAWAY JUDGE MAKE MINCEMEAT OF MORALITY AND THE INALIENABLE RIGHT OF LIFE"
When's the time for CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE? When they COME TO GET YOU??


211 posted on 03/25/2005 9:54:12 AM PST by noah (noah)
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To: carl in alaska
Carl, the point is, that these are not new affadavits. The evidence has been heard by the court. Apparently they didn't think much about what they had to say.

(insert comment about Judge Greer here)

212 posted on 03/25/2005 10:07:07 AM PST by Trust but Verify (Pull up a chair and watch history being made.)
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To: mysto; carl in alaska

OK, but in the future, people need to forget ancient threads and spend more time on comprehension of the current one (it doesn't help at all that the moderator deletes the harmless contextual posts). The point was originally not your tagline. It was the "drooling moron" tag. And I'm aware of the origins.

That doesn't mean it isn't ironic and worth a jab when someone is trying to be seriously authoritative and the post essentially ends with "...but I'm a drooling moron."

Then, since people still didn't get when I explained and your tag ends with "famous last words of a troll," I just said "OK, troll?" and then "Get it? Your tagline." so you might have an "Ahhhh... OK, Ha Ha, funny." moment and chill out. Instead you inexplicably went bonkers, calling moderators, friends and family.

But I'm cool with it myself. I think Terry Schiavo must have people on edge and stuff is going over their heads because of that.


213 posted on 03/25/2005 10:24:06 AM PST by spycatcher
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To: Trust but Verify
I think the two latest affadavits are new evidence. Jeb Bush referred to "new information" when he talked about the DCF possibly taking custody. Just because the other affadavits have been reviewed by the courts, that doesn't mean they were given fair consideration. The impression I'm getting is that Greer is totally entrenched in his position for reasons of pride, ego, and wanting to maintain his politcal support within powerful elements of the legal community. The Florida Supreme Kangaroo Court then backs him up because this is a liberal court that despises conservatives, conservative causes, and Governor Bush. Then the Federal courts and Supreme court refuse to reverse the Florida courts because they suspect Greer has botched this case and they don't want a screwed-up piece of trash like this case dumped on their desks. The Federal judges are saying, in effect, "don't dump this kind of garbage on our desks and expect us to straighten it out. Besides that, previous case law says this kind of issue is generally decided in the state courts."

This case just shows how vitally important it is to get good judges nominated and confirmed. No wonder liberals engage in vicious bare-knuckles fights to keep conservative judges out of the courts. We have to start street fighting too.

214 posted on 03/25/2005 10:40:19 AM PST by carl in alaska (Blog blog bloggin' on heaven's door.....Teddy's speeches are just one big snore.)
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To: spycatcher
I didn't go "bonkers"... and I wasn't crying to anyone. The only person I called was Meek, and that was so he could join in my amusement at your expense. If that offends you, I'm sorry. I wasn't being "anal." You don't seem to understand... I like to argue. I get a kick out of it. It's part of the reason I'm in law school.
BTW, the moderators pulled your post on their own, without my prompting them.
215 posted on 03/25/2005 10:58:37 AM PST by mysto ("I am ZOT proof" --- famous last words of a troll.)
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To: dirtboy
Of course I will admit when I am wrong. What is the point of pretending when you are in error. I think that Clinton's apparently wholesale pardons led me astray. I had not realized that they were so precisely aimed.

I also take your point about the founders not placing the preisdent in a trump position over the states.

I am still wondering about the nature of the judiciary versus the executive. Does "lawfulness" have to be what the last judge to rule says it is? I would have thought that the Governor would have had more power.

I do believe that the the Vth and XIVth Amendments' protection that "no person ...shall be deprived of life" with out due process of law" are being violated. So far the claim is that this is a civil case and the procees that is due is less than (1) proof beyond a reasonable doubt of all elements leading to the determination that a person is to be deprived of his life by state action; (2) jury trial; and the (3) right to be represented by counsel. It is only elevating form over substance to claim that Terri Schiavo is not entitled to those protections.

This is why the Congress is right to have passed the law to demand the de novo hearing; and the district court and the circuit court of appeals and the supreme court were wrong to see that vital federal constitutional rights were at stake of being deprived by state action without the process that case law has determined is "due" whenever the state is going to "take" a life.

This is why if the executive is empowered to act to enforce the constitution and the federal rights guaranteed thereunder, I would think that the executive should be able to act to protect those rights even if the courts have incorrectly construed those rights.

Of course, the issue is can the executive determine --for himself--that the court was wrong and that his oath to preserve protect and defend the constitution (not the judiciary) should trump the court orders.

[See National Review Online--Andrew McCarthy 3-25-05 for part of the above due process analysis. ]

216 posted on 03/26/2005 7:13:58 AM PST by ontos-on
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