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To: Quick1

Predict something with evolution. Go ahead.

I'll wait until I grow an extra thumb if you like.

Evolution is ALSO not scientific in the fact that it is NOT OBSERVABLE. Even in a lab setting, we have not witnessed one species change into another.

Lack of an observation makes it merely an idea. Just like unicorns.

HOWEVER: ID has as much bearing as evolution does in this debate. We can easily see how it is possible to form molecules into life. And also to engineer said life. We know this because we know that we are in fact made OF molecules. By observation. There at least is a theory of how to go about forming life via engineering.


18 posted on 03/23/2005 11:23:19 PM PST by MacDorcha ("Do you want the e-mail copy or the fax?" "Just the fax, ma'am.")
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To: MacDorcha
Predict something with evolution. Go ahead.

From here:

Evolution has been the basis of many predictions. For example:

* Darwin predicted, based on homologies with African apes, that human ancestors arose in Africa. That prediction has been supported by fossil and genetic evidence (Ingman et al. 2000).

* Theory predicted that organisms in heterogeneous and rapidly changing environments should have higher mutation rates. This has been found in the case of bacteria infecting the lungs of chronic cystic fibrosis patients (Oliver et al. 2000).

* Predator-prey dynamics are altered in predictable ways by evolution of the prey (Yoshida et al. 2003).

* Ernst Mayr predicted in 1954 that speciation should be accompanied with faster genetic evolution. A phylogenetic analysis has supported this prediction (Webster et al. 2003).

* Several authors predicted characteristics of the ancestor of craniates. On the basis of a detailed study, they found the fossil Haikouella "fit these predictions closely" (Mallatt and Chen 2003).

* Evolution predicts that different sets of character data should still give the same phylogenetic trees. This has been confirmed informally myriad times and quantitatively, with different protein sequences, by Penny et al. (1982).


Even in a lab setting, we have not witnessed one species change into another.

False. From here:

New species have arisen in historical times. For example:

* A new species of mosquito, Culex molestus, isolated in London's Underground, has speciated from Culex pipiens (Byrne and Nichols 1999; Nuttall 1998).

* Helacyton gartleri is the HeLa cell culture, which evolved from a human cervical carcinoma in 1951. The culture grows indefinitely and has become widespread (Van Valen and Maiorana 1991).

* Several new species of plants have arisen via polyploidy (when the chromosome count multiplies by two or more) (de Wet 1971). One example is Primula kewensis (Newton and Pellew 1929).

24 posted on 03/23/2005 11:30:58 PM PST by Quick1
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To: MacDorcha

I still eagerly await your evidence as to exactly what ID is used to predict, or even how it is falsifiable.


26 posted on 03/23/2005 11:35:04 PM PST by Quick1
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