Posted on 03/23/2005 5:35:31 PM PST by gentlestrength
The spiritual advisor of the Schindlers, Bro. O'Donnell, said the Dept. of Children and Families has had a new physician examine Terri and that "he DID go into her room and WAS at her side and DID observe her."
Department of Children and Families, are the department if someone is being physically abused, or the elderly, and "they have the authority" to take her into protective custody.
He continued, "what is being done to her now constitutes" that, and that DCF should "be taking her into protective custody."
Cooper: "Aren't people being taken off feeding tubes all the time?" Brother O'Donnell: "When they're DYING. But she was not dying. She could live another 20, 40 years."
"She's the only person who has been COURT ORDERED to have her tubes removed. Not 'The guardian MAY" but the guardian 'shall' remove her tubes."
CNN checked on the facticity of this last claim, and found that "There is ONLY ONE other case, Nancy Beth Cuzan in which the court ordered the tube MUST be removed."
Dr.Sanjay Gupta says if Terri is in the minimally conscious state, her eyes open spontaneously. She must do one of the following: --follow simple commands (to show she can hear and understand) --give yes or no responses
Jeb needs to push this - we need to determine who is no power in this country our elected leaders or an unelected judge who craps on the constitution. Jeb please do whats right and let history be the judge - you will go down as a hero if you save her life.
NOT TRUE......she can have surgery and have the plate removed to have a MRI, I heard that on Sean Hannity yesterday.!!
Do you actually think these things through before you say them?
"Those who recoil at what is going on with Terri are bothered on several, separable points. On the legal point of using evidence other than an advance written directive, the law permits taking evidence from people who know the patient. The problem with the combination of an advance directive and the course of action/inaction taken here (killing by starvation), is that many people who compose advance directives don't foresee the possibility that their own words will be misconstrued as authorization to be starved to death. To be accurate, some do desire to be starved to death, but it's not what people normally expect will happen. The normal thought is "I'm dying from trauma, accident, cancer or disease, and am going to die in a few hours or days anyway, so in that case, just take me off the machine and let my body go." But people don't assume or think, normally, until this case opened their eyes, that doctors would use the denial of food and water to cause death of a person that isn't hooked up to anything else."
"Anyway, there are both legal issues (what consititutes sufficient evidence, and how to correct a rogue trial court); and ethical issues (is it ethical to starve an otherwise healthy body to death). Again, it is legal for a person to starve themself to death. You can do that starting today if you want. It is legal. But nobody else is permitted to do that for you."
Cboldt, this is SO well said, and you make SO many excellent points in your posts on this thread...and make them so succinctly.
Hopefully your clear, reasoned insight will open a few tightly shut eyes. I thank you for what you've written on this case.
And I bump that.
"... once a line has been drawn, it's a trivial matter to move it to put a few more people on the other side of it. Each time, it becomes easier to rationalize away the worth of these lives, until finally, no one even bothers with rationalization any more."
Exactly the point I was trying to make. I've read Peach's posts, and asked the question because her view was both contrary to my own, and sincerely and thoughtfully arrived at.
Nonetheless, you'll notice that I didn't get an answer to this particular question -- I suspect because you can't draw a bright line between this case and other severely disabled or retarded people, with one exception: prior to her collapse, the court found that Terri stated that she would not want to "live like this". Given that Florida does not demand a written statement, that is an intolerably flimsy safeguard, at least in the world that I live in.
Which was a pretty lame response since most of these facilities have things called "walk in freezers".
I find it interesting that (and forgive me for touching on a personal subject, but it was brought up) one could have so much conviction on this point but have not put this coinviction into action with a family member. What, one fears the reprisals of the state?!?! It's "family" for goodness sake, if one really believed that what was good for the goose is good for the gander, they would have snuck in there and introduced an air embolism, some KCl, etc to hasten this end (unless the person having those convictions were underage, in which case they shouldn't be involved with it at all).
It's like all the folks I've talked to who support abortion but "would NEVER have one themselves". They would actively assist in jeapardizing the soul of another, and for some reason think they wouldn't get called on this when that big day comes. It's kind of funny when you think of it.
It's like metaphysical NIMBY to these folks. Or they believe God is really actually a dumb God in a Barney Fife goodness sort of way and sneaky little semantic obfuscations will just slide right by him. Boy, are they in for a potential surprise...
I wouldn't call it "lame" on those grounds. It was clinically corrrect. It is unethical to leave people to the elements or stuff them in freezers in order to cause their death. But shelter is a medical "basic necessity," just as food and feeding is.
It's like metaphysical NIMBY to these folks. Or they believe God is really actually a dumb God in a Barney Fife goodness sort of way and sneaky little semantic obfuscations will just slide right by him.
LOL. Great lines.
Chin up, He is in charge.
Yes, absalom, very flimsy indeed, in the world *I* live in as well. And witness the case or Kate, which came to light this past week. A case in which her LOVING, real husband had her true interest at heart, and allowed her the needed therapy which showed his love and hope for her to improve. Kate: another helpless, innocent, otherwise left for dead, human being.
Axenolith, I have been thinking NIMBY all this week...and you put it to words in a way that I couldn't.
I did get ticked off this morning, when the priest said Gov. Bush has canceled his appearances to go into hiding so he will not have to answer any questions at the public appearances. It is a bold faced LIE. There were no functions and making such statements hinders the creditability of the parents.
This now bringing out the worst in folks. May Terri know how many people loved her!
Yep, don't we often wish we could just sit in bed for 40 years with people waiting on us hand and foot? Just park the tv in front of me with my tapes going.
But it is NOT the right of the government to order that a person be dehydrated to death. NO ONE has the right to say, "Do NOT give that person a drink of water.: But that is what Judge Greer wrote in his execution oder.
It is so sad that these people are deepening the parents' despair by stating highly questionable conclusions about Terri's hope of recovery as if they were fact.
I considered that in 1975.
That is the law. I thought we were a nation of laws? I guess just those we agree with. Work to get laws you don't like changed.
I imagine Terri would be horrified by all of this. Just horrified. She WAS a beautiful young woman. She is still beautiful to me, but a shadow of her former self. To have these videos shown non-stop around the world in the state she is in is painful for me and I would never want it.
It is sad that some agreement could have been reached between Michael and her parents and he would have just walked away and let them care for her. Something went seriously wrong between them at some point. It's very sad for all.
Crucify him, crucify him, crucify him!!! Sounds familiar doesn't it?
And finding Schiavo family members to confirm MS's heresay 'lie.'
Matthew 26: 59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;
60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
--------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from The Complete Multimedia Bible based on the King James Version Copyright (c) 1994 Compton's NewMedia, Inc.
"Last Day. Last Day." ---Sandman Greer
when food and water is taken from a terminally ill person, it is not until the very last days and the person usually dies of the illness first. Even if the death was from dehydration, the death certificate would list the desease as the cause of the dehydration.
What will be listed as the cause of death for Terri? Dehydration caused by ?? court order?
I have a tape of "Selling Murder," about the Nazi eugenics program. I think it was on The Discovery Channel."
hey hey! That's a private family matter. Keep the police out of it!
Jim Moran from where? is not to be confused with Jerry Moran from Kansas.
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