Someone that has PVS.
Posted on 03/23/2005 2:19:08 PM PST by ambrose
Schiavo Videotape Misleading, Experts Say
Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:06 PM GMT
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The videotape that runs endlessly on television stations around the world shows an apparently smiling Terri Schiavo being caressed by her mother's loving hand.
She seems to look deeply, even lovingly, into the off-camera eyes of her mother.
Schiavo's parents and their supporters, including doctors in Congress, have used the tape as evidence the 41-year-old brain-damaged woman is at least occasionally aware of her surroundings and might even be revived from her condition.
They are fighting to get her feeding tube reinserted against the wishes of her husband and legal guardian who says Schiavo would not want to be kept alive in that condition.
But many experts agree the tape is a cruelly misleading trick of biology.
"Pictures do lie," said Dr. Lawrence Schneiderman, a physician and bioethicist at the University of California, San Diego.
"Every time they have done a videotaped neurological examination, the courts have reviewed them and said, 'Yes this woman is unconscious.' Those movements of her eyeballs are reflexive and have nothing to do with recognition."
Studies of people whose cerebral cortices are damaged in the way Schiavo's is show that their eyes will respond to stimuli such as movement or a human face, but there is no way for them to be conscious of what they are seeing.
Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, who has been part of the fight to prolong Schiavo's life, said on Wednesday a review of Schiavo's medical records by a neurologist for Florida's Adult Protective Services indicated she may have been misdiagnosed and was more likely in a state of minimal consciousness rather than in a persistent vegetative state.
Such a condition, in which a patient slips in and out of consciousness, was sometimes mistaken for a persistent vegetative state, said Dr. Joseph Fins of New York Presbyterian Hospital/Weill Cornell Medical Center. But Schiavo was not in that state, Fins said.
"I think now it can be argued that with the advent of minimally conscious state (as a diagnosis), that permanent vegetative state as a diagnosis becomes much more certain," Fins said in a telephone interview.
It is almost certain that when someone suffers brain damage from a lack of oxygen, they are permanently vegetative, Fins said. Schiavo's brain was starved of oxygen after her heart stopped 15 years ago and most doctors who have examined her say there is no chance of recovery.
'UNNERVING PHENOMENON'
Dr. Ronald Cranford, a neurologist and bioethicist at the University of Minnesota Medical School, said reflexes can fool nonspecialists.
"To the families and loved ones, and to inexperienced health care professionals, PVS (permanent vegetative state) patients often look fairly 'normal,"' Cranford said in a statement.
"Their eyes are open and moving about during the periods of wakefulness that alternate with periods of sleep; there may be spontaneous movements of the arms and legs, and at times these patients appear to smile, grimace, laugh, utter guttural sounds, groan and moan, and manifest other facial expressions and sounds that appear to reflect cognitive functions and emotions, especially in the eyes of the family."
Dr. Timothy Quill of the Center for Palliative Care and Clinical Ethics at the University of Rochester in New York, said reporting about the case had confused people.
"Distortion by interest groups, media hyperbole, and manipulative use of videotape have characterized this case and demonstrate what can happen when a patient becomes more a precedent-setting symbol than a unique human being," Quill wrote in a commentary published on Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine.
"Anybody who been around patients in a persistent vegetative state knows that it is an unnerving phenomenon because they are alternate between sleep and wakefulness but that have no ability to interact," Quill said in a telephone interview.
"It is difficult for families because it is very difficult to discern that."
I guess it all depends on which experts you ask.
Someone that has PVS.
But I forgot...She's not a crook, a criminal, a murderous sexual predator...She's not entitled to the same due process...
The Lord is Terri's Shepherd --- That's Relationship !!!
She shall not want --- That's Supply !!!
He maketh her to lie down in green pastures --- That's Rest !!!
He leadeth her beside the still waters --- That's Refreshment !!!
He restoreth her soul --- That's Healing !!!
He leadeth her in the paths of righteousness --- That's Guidance !!!
For His name sake --- That's Purpose !!!
Yea, though Terri walks through the valley of the shadow of death --- That's Testing !!!
She will fear no evil --- That's Protection !!!
For Thou art with her --- That's Faithfulness !!!
Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort her --- That's Discipline !!!
Thou preparest a table before Terri in the presence of her enemies--- That's Hope !!!
Thou annointest her head with oil --- That's Consecration !!!
Her cup runneth over --- That's Abundance !!!
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow Terri all the days of her life --- That's Blessing !!!
And she will dwell in the house of the Lord --- That's Security!!!
Forever --- That's Eternity !!!
Congressional Subpoena & President Signs Schiavo Bill --- That's Expectation !!!
Gov. Jeb Bush takes Terri into protective custody --- That's Deliverance !!!
Face it ---- The Lord is crazy about Terri !!!
Otherwise --- Why else would He continuously deliver her from
the evil hands of her attempted murderers ???
We need more STUDIES!
I think there needs to be more clinical research to determine what is at work here.
I submit Terri Schiavo as an excellent case study. Would you agree she should be taken from the hospice, put back on the tube, given fluids, food and electrolytes, therapy and further therapeutic help, further congnitive analysis, and we can conduct even more and detailed tests? I agree! We could do those tests for the next number of weeks or months, maybe even a few years or more comprehensive tests studying reflexes, will, PVS, etc. Now you do realize that meanwhile that would give others of us chance to get her parents back into true guardianship from her former spouse who is now engaged to be remarried.
Since this is such a controversial issue and the data is incomplete and the jury is out, we should side on the side of care and life, as research continues. Yeah, maybe we SHOULD study these PVS-reflex-willing movement cases more closely!
"What does this have to do with state and federal sanction starvation of an innocent woman?"
There's good arguments that PVS or not life should not be terminated. But many are relying on the video shots propping up Terri in a chair, etc., for their position that she's not PVS - implicitly if she were the tube could be removed.
She must be seriously sick.
Every second counts after this many days.
Who are you gonna believe, *US* or your *LYING EYES*?
I count four named sources. Did you actually read the story?
Experts said that the HMS Titanic could not sink.
Last I checked, she's two miles below the waves.
I do not place much faith in 'experts'. They are wrong more often than not.
" Studies of people whose cerebral cortices are damaged in the way Schiavo's is show that their eyes will respond to stimuli such as movement or a human face, but there is no way for them to be conscious of what they are seeing. "
What about the video showing her purposefully following the balloon moving from side to side, moving not just her eyes but her whole head?? It seems like a conscious act to me.
At one point "experts" thought the Earth was flat.
Even if the article were true (which is doubtful in light of REAL EVIDENCE YOU COULD SEE AND HEAR FOR YOURSELVES IF YOU WANTED) that doesn't justify killing her... unless we've finally devolved to a eugenics society.
Any one of us could be labeled as subhuman using the types of argumentation in this case. I'm just a machine, for example, a bundle of nerves typing this, and because I stubbed my toe this morning and life is tough, I wouldn't want to live this way. Nor are my protests to the contrary to be believed BECAUSE of my subhuman state. The state knows best.
The state is, in fact, shirking its duty according to the 14th Amendment.
Experts say "Who are you going to believe, us or your own eyes?".
I pray he does so soon, very soon.
That's what I think. There's way too much doubt.
I guess in lieu of not being able to know, we should err on the side of letting her live.
I do not suppose there is any way to persuade you how totally self-defeating this whole emotional tangent over a local case in Florida, is to the cause of restoring Conservative values in America!
So if the tape that is out there is "misleading", why is there no other videotape available? As far as that goes, how much of whatever medical records there are on Terri Schiavo, have been made available for perusal by qualified medical personnel who have no stake in the outcome either way?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Apparently you've not seen the video I'm referring to. There's a difference between opening your eyes and opening them wide. If you believe your dog said bark, you need help.
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