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To: Pendragon_6

Anyone can make such claims. I know what it's like to be lied about in the most horrible way. However, was Michael ever charged, or convicted of any of the claims made against him? NEVER. Well then why not?

It is very saddening for me to witness supposed "Christians" make the most outrageous claims against this man and have others believe and repeat the baseless charges.

WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?

Here's something I wrote (and please to all who disagree - please act like decent Christians and abstain from mindless hostility. If you disagree, just say so and if possible, explain why. Resorting to ad hominem attacks is disgraceful):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

LET TERRI DIE AND RETURN TO GOD

A huge outcry has been raised concerning the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. Why the emotion over a common medical practice of stopping artificial treatment when there is no hope of recovery?

Terri has been kept artificially alive for more than fifteen years despite being in a “persistent vegetative state.” What exactly does this mean?

"People in [this] state cannot think, speak or respond to commands and are not aware of their surroundings. They may have noncognitive functions and breathing and circulation may remain relatively intact." (National Institute of Health)

Terri is kept alive by having a feeding tube inserted into her stomach. She has no chance of recovery. If it wasn’t for modern medicine, she would've died within several days of her heart failure.

What exactly is the difference of her and those who are kept alive by ventilators but are also impossible to restore?

When my wife was dying from cervical cancer several years ago, I signed a "DO NOT RESUSCITATE" form. I didn't want to see the woman I loved, the mother of my three young sons, my mate of ten years and eternal companion, suffer more than she had. Seeing her go through three years of pain was more than I could bear.

When she slipped into a coma, we knew the end was near. When she stopped breathing, I was holding her hand, whispering "Go towards the light." And "I will love you forever."

Her sisters were frantic and wanted her to be resuscitated and kept alive for as long as possible on the machines. I put my foot down and said no and informed them I signed a "DO NOT RESUSCITATE" form. As a result, my wife was finally at rest and no longer suffering.

To this day my in-laws still harbor anger towards me and still haven't stopped grieving for my late wife.

Terri's family wants to believe she will recover. They are portraying her husband as being evil for wanting to put an end to the horrible spectacle of artificially keeping this poor woman alive in a permanent vegetative state.

When people are in a situation where it is impossible for them to recover, it is an obscenity to perpetuate life when the only decent thing is to let our loved one go. It is unfortunate cryonics is still considered an outlandish procedure. Those cases that hold hope of a future medical cure should just be cryogenically preserved. I know I would prefer to be cryogenically frozen if I was placed in a similar situation. Nanomedicine a century or two from now shouldn’t have any problem repairing cellular damage from the freezing process and revive those frozen, regardless of their illness.

We humans are designed to eventually DIE. Everyone wants to go to heaven but no one wants to die. How long must this poor woman be kept artificially alive before she is allowed to move on to the next life? Isn’t fifteen years enough?

Her doctors aren’t evil. Neither is her husband. He loves her and wants her to finally be at peace. Living as a vegetable is no way for humans to live.

It is helpful to examine the different situations where artificial treatment is given in cases of medical incapacity:

• Cessation of brain and heart and/or other organ activity
• Cessation of brain activity
• Cessation of cognitive brain activity
• Cessation of heart or other organ activity

Cessation of brain and heart

Must one continually perform CPR upon a person who has drowned? How long must it be performed before one discontinues artificial treatment and face facts the patient will never recover? What if the victim's parents insist CPR be continued non-stop for days on end? One has to face facts artificial treatment may only work within a very small window of opportunity in cases of brain-death and heart stoppage.

Cessation of brain activity

What about in cases of brain-death and the person is only kept alive by machines? If the patient’s brain has ceased to function and the patient is incapable of breathing on his own; the person’s chances of recovery are nonexistent.

Cessation of cognitive brain activity

People in permanent comas lose their cognitive ability. They are incapable of thinking, waking up or communicating. Most doctors agree if these patients haven’t recovered after a year; they will never recover. However, everyone has heard stories about people waking up from comas after 10 years, giving the faint hope that our loved one will also recover some day. However for every one that does recover, thousands don’t and most die a slow death.

Cessation of heart or other organ activity

Modern medicine has machines that can keep a person alive for quite some time if they lose the use of a certain organ, such as kidneys or heart. It isn’t a permanent solution though and the person will need their defective organ repaired or replaced.

Final thoughts

Terri Schiavo suffered permanent brain damage from heart failure. This damage was so severe that she is incapable of cognitive thought. Her brain still works to a limited extent - the involuntary systems such as her respiratory and circulatory systems are still functioning. But Terri, the person, the personality, is not longer there. It’s as if the portions of her brain that stored her person, her memories, her thoughts and her personality were removed. It’s as if her spirit is no longer in her body. The only thing her brain does is keep her physical body alive – it has become nothing more than a hospital respirator or heart-lung machine.

I know it’s heartbreaking for most to see her. She sleeps and awakes, her eyes open and she moves from side to side. But according to all the independent and court-appointed observers, some of whom spent several months by her side, her eyes don’t focus. There’s never been any hint she recognizes anyone or anything. She doesn’t respond to speech or touch. All the remains is involuntary and noncognitive. Those most familiar with her specific case such as medical doctors and courts have all agreed with this assessment. This is why her husband has won every single case against her parents. It isn’t a conspiracy; the facts are obvious when examined honestly.

Fifteen years is long enough. I know what her husband is going through. He wants his wife to rest and stop being the vegetable laying in bed. He was a faithful husband for many years and placed great demands on his time and those caring for Terri for at least eight years before recognizing the hopelessness and decided to end the horror. I don’t think I could’ve lasted that long with the constant pain of seeing my wife in such a condition. At least he had the sense to move on, find another and raise a family while her parents still cling to a miracle of recovery.

We need to face facts. Sometimes God’s answer is no regardless of how fervently we want otherwise. Let us all let her go so she may enjoy her rest with the Lord.


25 posted on 03/21/2005 8:05:51 AM PST by Edward Watson
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To: Edward Watson
"A huge outcry has been raised concerning the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. Why the emotion over a common medical practice of stopping artificial treatment when there is no hope of recovery? Terri has been kept artificially alive for more than fifteen years despite being in a “persistent vegetative state.”" So giving food and water is "artificial treatment"? Denying food and water is "common medical practice?" She's not on artificial life support. Her body is functioning fine without the aid of machine. Sure, she's incapable of feeding herself or taking a drink herself, but so are most quadriplegics and infants. Would it be considered "common medical practice" for a caregiver to stop giving food or drink to a baby? Of course not...in fact, it's a crime. And that, my friends, is the point of all of this.
60 posted on 03/21/2005 8:24:38 AM PST by TexasRainmaker (God only created a few politically perfect people. The rest He called democrats.)
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To: Edward Watson

Here's what I have to say about Terri's condition and the whole situation.

1) Micheal Schiavo's actions are at least suspicious. If all he wanted to do is get on with his life, he could sign over legal guardianship to her parents and get a divorce and get on with his life. Why must she die? (Hint: Follow the money...)

2) Unless eating is an "artificial treatment" Terri is not kept alive by extraordinary means. Christopher Reeves was kept alive by extraordinary means. Terri is simply being fed. In fact, former nurses have stated that she could eat real food (probably baby food-like), it's her husband that has chosen to use the "feeding Tube". Probably more for convenience than anything.

3) If a veterinary doctor let terminally ill dogs die by starvation, he would have his license revoked, be jailed and probably tarred & feathered by the PETA crowd. Why would anyone be for STARVING HER TO DEATH?


75 posted on 03/21/2005 8:33:00 AM PST by 80sReaganite (W - STILL the President!)
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To: Edward Watson

Few things here that we differ on...other than that, I do appreciate and applaud your line of thinking.

a.) In most states, a feeding tube would NOT be considered an artificial manner of maintaining life. A personal friend lost his wife to stomach cancer last year. She spent the final 9 months of her life rather fully functional, but taking nutrients and water through a feeding tube.

b.) There are a number of people that I am aware of, locally to me, who live day-to-day by having their food and water delivered by feeding tube, and by licensed nursing staff. They are not able to do this themselves.

c.) Don't think the premise of a No Resuss Clause is proper here, because the act of a professional medical person (or, just a trained layman) feeding an incapacitated person through a feeding tube does not fully smack of artificial rescucitation.

Just as a sidenote...has anyone linked the act of removing her feeding tube to the act of assisted suicide? That's illegal in most states. If it's determined that the feeding tube is not truly an artificial act, then wouldn't her supposed request to perish be such? This is the issue that haunts me more than any other, personally.


82 posted on 03/21/2005 8:35:24 AM PST by wvjim (Montani Semper Libre!)
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To: Edward Watson
Ed:

You did the right thing....sometimes the hardest thing to do is let someone we love dearly die.

I have a living will that will save me from this ordeal, but if I didn't, I would hope my spouse would allow me to die rather than live in such a manner.
88 posted on 03/21/2005 8:36:49 AM PST by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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To: Edward Watson

Terri Schiavo simply needs food and nutrition. She is not on "life support." (And she is not unconscious or unresponsive, just not consistently responsive)

To act to pull the tube is unethical because the intention is to cause her death.

The prohibition by Michael for years not to give anything by mouth is questionable as long as the tube feedings continue. In light of the determination to stop feeding, however, it does not look ethical.

It would not be unethical to feed her by mouth, although it risks aspiration pneumonia, because the intention would be comfort and hydration, not to cause a pneumonia.

The


92 posted on 03/21/2005 8:38:41 AM PST by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
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To: Edward Watson
Edward:

When she slipped into a coma, we knew the end was near. When she stopped breathing, I was holding her hand, whispering "Go towards the light." And "I will love you forever."

I believe that you did the right thing.

Yet, I believe that Terri has been denied the kind of love, such as you had and probably still have for your lovely wife.

Daily, since Terri was found prostrate on the floor by police and paramedics in February of 1990, her husband has denied her wish, if it was, "to not live like that." Day in, day out, for more than the years that you envisioned your wife in such suffering; indeed, for twice what you imagined, in your words.

Michael Schiavo and his fellow conspirators who remained silent, had repeatedly denied Terri, your standard of love, from February 1990 up until George Felos arrived on the scene as Michael's attorney in 1998.

Almost eight years of what you envision as suspended misery to be avoided, Michael Schiavo imposed upon Terri against her will.

I do not believe that you would have imposed that. I do not believe that you would have continued your wife's suffering at all, even to win some monetary reward in court.

Indeed, I can easily imagine, had you won such a monetary reward, as Michael Schiavo did, that if there were some chance of halting the cancer in your wife, and I mean a real good chance, that appeared to you as "worth a shot," I believe that you would have chosen well.

Because I have no doubt of your love for your wife.

God Bless you, sir.

103 posted on 03/21/2005 8:44:41 AM PST by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: Edward Watson

Your post is right on the money but will not prevent hostile attacks on you and your view. My experience with my wife's death was similiar to your's and in NO case would I try and put her through this horror one second longer than she had to tolerate. And I loved her more than life itself.

This is a disaster for the GOP and its falling all over itself in denying the obvious will hurt it.


116 posted on 03/21/2005 8:47:30 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: Edward Watson; HMFIC

It's one thing to stop machines, but this woman is not on machines. She breathes on her own, as she is brain damaged, not brain dead.

As to abuse charges, take a close review of this medical document. Clip and copy it to your browser, it will open. Open it up full size, and read it. Then ask yourself how this woman got this much physical trauma, from "falling down".

http://www.terrisfight.org/images/bonescan.jpg

.


118 posted on 03/21/2005 8:48:31 AM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: Edward Watson

Your "facts" about what a swell Boy Scout your pal Michael is are no more credible than the article poster's "facts" about what a horrible person your Pal Micheal is.


139 posted on 03/21/2005 8:55:15 AM PST by Husker8877
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To: Edward Watson

Amen.


141 posted on 03/21/2005 8:57:57 AM PST by PresbyRev
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To: Edward Watson
Patients post cva have permanent brain damage.

Patients with ALS have permanent brain damage.

Patients born prematurely with germinal matrix bleeds suffer permanent brain damage.

Patients with autism have permanent brain damage.

Patients with down's have permanent brain damage.

are you saying we should kill them?

are you saying we should neglect them and let them die?

If we let them die should we starve them to death or give a lethal injection?

Should we save money on death row by just letting them starve?
161 posted on 03/21/2005 9:06:08 AM PST by avile (take the money and run with the ho)
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To: Edward Watson
You state many "facts" that are in dispute. For instance, MANY people with close contact with Terri state that she IS indeed responsive.

She is NOT terminally ill. She is disabled. All that she has required [in the many years that she has in fact been DENIED any other care] is food and water, delivered through a tube that is connected to a port in her abdomen, and then disconnected when the feeding is over.

There is no written documentation of her wishes. Her husband of only several years at the time of her "accident" vs. "illness" states that she told him she wouldn't want such a tube. This "husband", who is living with another woman currently by whom he has children and also stands to gain financially from her death in terms of the malpractice suit money, could be said to have a conflict of interest in terms of what is in Terri's best interest.

Terri does NOT have an illness that would be expected to kill her. To withhold food and water from this disabled woman would starve her to death. This is being done on the verbal testimony of a "husband" who has conflicts of interest.

The judge in the case also has a conflict of interest, having worked with Felos [Shiavo's attorney] in the past. The judge was picked by Felos because of his known opinions in these matters.
190 posted on 03/21/2005 9:17:09 AM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Edward Watson
A lot of evil is/has been done in the name of Jesus. You would be careful how you declare what Jesus would do. I personally do not believe Jesus would starve someone to death for any reason. I would like to see any remote biblical reference where this is even condoned, much less recommended.

Feeding someone is not keeping them alive by artificial means. Depriving someone of food, water, air is murder. You go through a lot of long winded, bible thumping, medical explanation looking for a reason the allow murder. We should not be anxious to put someone to death (murder) because we think that their life is not worth living. Save that kind of rationalation for your own living will. Maybe you should consider prayer and reading the bible with comprehension
203 posted on 03/21/2005 9:22:13 AM PST by dirtymac (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country)
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To: Edward Watson

Your wife died naturally, sadly, but naturally. Terri is not in a vegetative state and there are signs that she could be helped and wants help. I have no problem with a death that's natural and imminent. People must die at some time but not starving to death. That's inhuman. Would you starve your dog to death? No. You wouldn't. This is not an easy case to decide. I've already signed a do not resuscitate on my 'will' if I'm already close to death. People need to have a living will. Perhaps this will encourage folks to do that, no matter what their age.


246 posted on 03/21/2005 9:50:21 AM PST by Marysecretary (Thank you, Lord, for FOUR MORE YEARS!!!)
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To: Edward Watson

I had to let my son go too. It was sooo hard. I agree with you on this issue. Sorry for your loss.


267 posted on 03/21/2005 10:03:17 AM PST by Beeline40@aol.com (What is an Esthetician...?)
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To: Edward Watson

Not having examined her yourself Eddie,and not being a qualified physician, how dare you make such blatant negative statements regarding her current condition. I'm not sure what size shoe you wear Eddie, but I'd make sure your last pair is made of asbestos!


273 posted on 03/21/2005 10:05:37 AM PST by Doc Savage (...because they stand on a wall, and they say nothing is going to hurt you tonight, not on my watch!)
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To: Edward Watson
We need to face facts. Sometimes God’s answer is no regardless of how fervently we want otherwise. Let us all let her go so she may enjoy her rest with the Lord.

Starving people to death has nothing to do with "God's answer."
354 posted on 03/21/2005 10:47:50 AM PST by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces †)
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To: Edward Watson

what a beautiful and much needed post. i agree with you completely. setting aside the constiutional crisis i think has been created, you make the moral point so well. no one wants to see hope diminish but these situations that people face every single day are complex and difficult and anguishing. the politics of this sickens me for terri.

i spoke to my brother last night and asked, why doesn't schiavo just forget all this and give her to her parents, i don't know if i could fight this much. and my brother said, what if it was me? and that was it. yes, i would fight for him forever, despite the circus of people thinking they know better. i would fight to let him go. (of course i have his living will and he has mine.)

this case has been heard, again and again and again. let her rest and stop toruring her.


395 posted on 03/21/2005 11:07:48 AM PST by jschald
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To: Edward Watson
Her sisters were frantic and wanted her to be resuscitated and kept alive for as long as possible on the machines. I put my foot down and said no and informed them I signed a "DO NOT RESUSCITATE" form. As a result, my wife was finally at rest and no longer suffering.

I am sorry to hear about your wife, and you did the right thing.

We need to face facts. Sometimes God’s answer is no regardless of how fervently we want otherwise. Let us all let her go so she may enjoy her rest with the Lord.

That sums it up pretty well. Thanks for a great post, you said it better than I could have.

413 posted on 03/21/2005 11:18:49 AM PST by InHisService
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To: Edward Watson
I don’t think I could’ve lasted that long with the constant pain of seeing my wife in such a condition. At least he had the sense to move on, find another and raise a family while her parents still cling to a miracle of recovery.

That's a very convenient, yet inaccurate, recitation of the facts. Schiavo did not "move on" -- he started another family while simultaneously refusing to divorce Terri.

Seeing how important God's opinion is to you, please tell me: would you have begun an sexual relationship with another while your wife (whom you refused to divorce) was still in that condition? Do you think that being in such a difficult circumstance entitles one to make their own rules about what is adultery and what is not?

472 posted on 03/21/2005 11:53:33 AM PST by L.N. Smithee
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