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To: BillF; All
DISSENSION IN THE RANKS OF THE RABBLE!
Found this on Indymedia. It is my opinion that the efforts of FReepers affected the Fayetteville protest in ways that were not apparent to us at the time. Read below how at the last minute the ISO speaker was forbidden to take the stage! These are the words of a hardcore lefty...

"Re: Fayetteville Iraq War Demonstration Photo Essay by J.. M........

21 Mar 2005
(I shared this report back with DAWN, thought it would be appropriate here since it offers a counter-weight to the report above)

A lot of us have been talking about our experience in Fayetteville, and generally the opinions range from lukewarm optimism of the event to downright pessismism.

(snip)

Contrary to what the people in Fayetteville are reporting, there was a maximum of 2,500 people at their march and rally (a number that many experienced activists agree on after surveying the crowd)...which is about half of the 4800 they claim to have. It was a mello march in a tucked away part of town over an extremely small march route that hemmed us in a park where participants all had to go through a search of bags and a sweep, the only purpose of which I could determine was to show the people in Fayetteville that the police were boss. Even the counter-demonstrators looked altogether bored by what happened.

One of the positives is that DC outmobilized any other city in getting people out there. We brought 84 on our buses; there was an ANSWER bus from DC that had 16. And, I estimate another 50 or so DC-area people came separately on their own. I kept running into them all day. If my numbers are right, DC was 6% of the entire crowd.

Another positive of the day was that it’s clear that there obviously is a growing contingent of veterans in the anti-war movement. They are energized and organizing, and my guess is that they looked at the day from a different prism than many of us.

However, the question looming over us all day was whether the rally and march accomplished anything at all. I’ve never been to a mass mobilization (and don’t blame it on the hours I spent organizing; I’ve had quite the opposite experience in other demos and been far more tired) where I left with such little energy (that was thankfully restored by the vigil that’s going on now). We didn’t reach people in the town, who weren’t there and couldn’t have cared less about it (the counter-demonstrators were from out of town by and large; I recognized some of our DC freeper friends). There was no call to further action that I could gather. And, the way the organizers caved into extremely unreasonable police demands left everyone feeling disempowered and like the bold speech from the platform was nothing short of a comical farce.

To their credit, Doug, Luke, and Karen refused to go through the search. In Karen’s case, she stood up for someone getting arrested whereas the Fayetteville organizers left the person in the lurch. I watched from across the park as a man was tackled by 5 police officers. He had been challenging the ridiculous searches going on by jumping over the fence at an unauthorized spot. When police then went in with full force to tackle him, a lot of us went over to understand the situation. Immediately, a sea of red-shirted Fayetteville volunteers did everything they could to turn us back to the stage. Okay, fine, their action, let them make sure that they are supporting the person being jailed, who turned out to be one of their speakers. But, what do they do? They turn there back and totally ignore the situation. It took Karen and the few legal observers there to help the guy out. The Fayetteville organizers couldn’t have cared less and were probably horrified that their tightly scripted event had led to an arrest.

This to me was symbolic of the day, but it wasn’t so much just Fayetteville, but generally this attitude that we can put all this energy into what amounts to a parade and a party without having any sense that we are moving forward in fighting war or protecting civil liberties. Mass mobilizations are intended to pressure the government and the population to notice injustice. Instead, this one seemed co-opted into the unjust system it hypocritically purported to be against.

It didn’t help that our bus was rather lousy…though the energy was great. Maybe the fumes from the burning CB put me in this foul mood.

An ISO person who was under impression he would be speaking since he appeared in a published program was kept from the stage by Lou Plummer (head of their steering committee), who threatened to have him arrested.

One bit of irony that arose out of a very sad incident…ANSWER’s bus, which only had 16 people (almost all organizers and volunteers), couldn’t make it back to DC because their bus driver had a heart attack. We gave all of them who wanted one a free lift home. I hope that the goodwill here will lead to better communication between the two groups."(snip)

584 posted on 03/24/2005 10:10:42 PM PST by Flora McDonald (Stand the Storm!)
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To: BillF

What kind of plugin do you need to view the video? I just upgraded Firefox and it can't seem to find the right plugin.


585 posted on 03/24/2005 10:18:11 PM PST by Flora McDonald (Stand the Storm!)
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To: Flora McDonald

Interesting. Where does that come from? Also, I probably will know it as soon as you tell me, but I can't remember. What is ISO?

On your post about the video, Internet Explorer opens another small window asking whether you want to use Windows Media Player or Real Player to play the video and asking what speed your connection is. I don't know FireFox, but would think that WMP or RP could be used with it to play the video.


586 posted on 03/24/2005 10:43:29 PM PST by BillF (Fight terrorists in Iraq & elsewhere, instead of waiting for them to come to America!)
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To: Flora McDonald
We didn’t reach people in the town, who weren’t there and couldn’t have cared less about it ...

Last year, when I told a few local strangers about the rally afterwards, none knew about it.

This year, so far, two locals not only knew about the rally, but also knew of the violence.
589 posted on 03/25/2005 4:59:19 AM PST by clyde asbury (My generation will put it right.)
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To: Flora McDonald

Wow.....

An analysis of a lost battle with out the wherewithall for a counter attack.


595 posted on 03/25/2005 7:47:14 AM PST by bert (Peace is only halftime !)
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To: Flora McDonald

Thanks for posting FM. It becomes too difficult for the leftists to create a "successful action" when the public is pre-informed of what to expect. The left thrives when the primary source of information is the MSM. Fayetteville, with all of its vets, obviously has multiple alternative information networks. The left should stick to creating chaos in "sophisticated" towns like San Francisco, Berlin, Damascus and Paris.


601 posted on 03/25/2005 7:12:49 PM PST by Huber (Conservatism - It's not just for breakfast anymore!)
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To: Flora McDonald
Click here for the actual thread on San Diego Indy Media

Contructive criticism of the anti-war mov't
spock | 23.03.2005 02:55

I've dropped out of the anti-war movement in the US, but I'm still against the war. I just can't agree or connect with the people who are leading it. I beleive it has some very serious flaws that prevent it from becoming a truely popular movement that appeals to broad sectors of the working class population. I belive it's on the decline and I know why.

The anti-war movement in the US is up for grabs to the highest bidders. If it isn’t being controlled by the Democratic Party for the purpose of getting pro-war candidates like Kerry elected, it’s being controlled by military families for the purpose of washing the Iraqi blood of their sons’ and daughters’ hands, lobbying Congress for better bereavement awards for themselves, lobbying Congress for better armor for the troops (to keep them alive longer so they can kill more Iraqis) and lobbying Congress for better pay and benefits for the troops.

If it isn’t being controlled by the above it’s being controlled by white 55+year-old professional peace gurus who refuse to count Iraqi military and resistance fighters’ deaths, who refuse to march or hold rallies in neighborhoods of color, who hold their marches and rallies when and where no working people are around, who think their peacenik culture is where it’s at.

If it isn’t them it’s the ANSWER “Marxists” who parade around in FARC hats and Castro hats, claiming that all prisoners in the US are political prisoners and trying to organize an armed forces union so US soldiers get more pay and benefits for murdering Iraqis, taking their orders from their higher-ups in New York.

All of the above are united to keep the anti-war movement in a state of limbo. All value the lives of the US troops more than the Iraqis’ lives. All support the US troops as they murder their way about in Iraq. All regard the US troops as blameless working class victims who were forced to join the military, forced to go to Iraq and forced to murder, torture, rape and maim Iraqis. All give the US troops impunity from their war crimes.

All are willing to be dishonest about the anti-war movement’s failure to reach out to working class people of all colors. All are willing to lie about the number of protestors at anti-war demonstrations. All refuse to admit that the anti-war movement in the US is failing miserably because of their misleadership, rampant opportunism and loyalty to the DP and US imperialism.

more on this in the future

interesting comment
23.03.2005 09:06

I agree with you on many of the points you made: it seems like the location of the rally is always Balboa Park, away from most poor and working class and non-white San diegans. It also seems hypocritical that large organizations, like ANSWER and SDCPJ would take on the some of the issues that they do. And ofcourse, people of Color have a Falloujha, and an Afghanistan right here. Everytime I take the Trolley to the South Bay and I go by Barrio Logan and Harbor Drive, and look over to the War Ships standing there, I get a chilling sense that just by some 'event' I am on the other side of the ships' guns. Prisions, Police, and Schools are 'terrorrizing' us in a way. The Border Patrol, the triple fence.

But something I don't agree with you on is on 'droping out'. You can take brakes, those are valid, but you never drop out. When you think you do, that is when you hide responsability in the closet. If the main organizations turn you off, (they turn me off too), start your own, join a small one, or just talk to your neighbors. As an Brown man in apartheid-like San diego, my brain is the only weapon, and self defense through direct action organizing, are some of the methods I have. Don't drop out, because you can't. in solidarity,

roman
e-mail:: decolonizing@yahoo.com

droppng out
23.03.2005 18:53

What I meant to say is that I've dropped out of their "peace" protestest scene. I can't stand their silly culture, their antics, their hypocrisy, etc.

I'll give you an example. In 2003, at the MLK Day Parade on Harbor Dr, about 2000 peacniks from the SD Coalition for Peace in the Middle East showed up. They were by far the largest contingency in the parade.

I stood on the sideline and watched almost the entire parade. From a spectator's view, they stuck out like a sore thumb.

Imagine watching this parade, seeing the many communities of color organizations, the high schools, the bands, the families, etc. It's primarily a community event, open to all, but appealing primarily to people of color as the crowd consisted of mostly of people of color, mostly black people.

Now image watching this parade and slowly comes this huge contingeny making its way down Harbor Dr. From far off, one asks: What could it be?

As it approaches it gets louder and louder. Contrary the the other contincencies, whose music is appealing to the crowd and often draws its participation, the peace contingency is beating drums, pots and pans to rythms that were totally foriegn to the crowd.

The crowd, instead of groving on the rythms (if you want to say the drums, pots and pans were beating to rythms), stops and stares. What the hell is this, was the expression on many faces in the crowd.

The SDCPJ contingency was 99% white. Some of them were dressed like 1960 hippies and dancing like they were at a Grateful Dead concert, high on acid, goofy.

It came off like it was intrusive. It carried a certain white arrogance about it. I doubt that it inspired anyone in the crowd to want to join the anti-war movement in the US. It most likely turned people off because of its arrogance and silliness.

Had it been led by an organization of working class people of color it could have had a positive effect. Instead, it was led by an old white woman who is out of touch with people of color, who is affraid to march with her peacenik fans in working class neighborhoods of color.

It's good to see that I'm not the only person who is disillusioned with the anti-war movement. There needs to be more of us and we need to get together.

spock

Response to Outdropper
23.03.2005 20:47

Your comments do not reveal whether you have attended any meetings of any of the groups participating in the anti-war movement. You may find more diversity in the meetings, & there you could offer constructive comments regarding their actions. I do know that some local trade unions are involved as are some Latino groups.

Often, people who drop out stand by the side to criticize the actions of those involved. What is that Chinese maxim? Those who are not doing it should not criticize those who are. Something like that.

I find it more remarkable that only hundreds, maybe a thousand, of people showed up at Balboa Park on March 19. Several hundred thousand people live within a twenty minute drive of the park. Does that mean that all those people approve of the invasion of Iraq & the lies emanating from the Bush administration? The parking lots of the malls I passed to get to the demonstraion were filled w/ cars. To them, it is more important to shop than care for the lives of the thousands of Iraqis who have perished in the invasion. The people of Falluja are without homes; the city is rubble. The children. . . . You do the research for the children of Iraq who have suffered and are still suffering from the invasion in 1990-91. The depleted & undepleted uranium used in ordnance has caused a large spike in the reported birth deformaties in Iraq.

You do the research. Some of us do care about the deaths in Iraq. Go to Iraq Body Count for reported deaths. Perhaps you would do better finding other constructive ways to criticize the war, the Bush administraion criminals, & the corporate thieves who are profiteering from the devastation in Iraq.

pithecuspete

God you people are so f**king doomed
3.2005 19:44

Solidarity with the Sunni head-choppers and car bombers of Iraq as they try to wreck an emerging democracy. Feel proud, you f**king scum.

Amos

to pithpete
25.03.2005 05:03

"What is that Chinese maxim? Those who are not doing it should not criticize those who are. Something like that."

Chinese or not, the quote is for nonthinkers. Here's why. Suppose the Nazis are marching down the street. Now, I'm not going to march with them. By your quote I should not criticize them. I should just remain silent as they goose step on by. The quote is absurd.

As for the comment about supporting people who chop off heads: I would say that chopping off a persons head is more human than death by cluster bombs, napalm, slow torture, sophocation, being lit on fire, etc - all methods employed by US troops in Iraq and approved of by herr Bush, der fuhrer.

Now, on this matter of democracy under occupation. If you think there can be a legitimate election, with secret candidats, hand picked political parties, US PR firms, no international observers, etc under an extremely brutal illegal occupation because Bush says so, then you must be a very ignorant person.

atticus finch
602 posted on 03/25/2005 7:38:47 PM PST by Doctor Raoul (Support Our Troops, Spit On A Reporter)
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